Do the devs care about these posts and threads ?

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I'd love to have some direct feedback on suggestions, though. Right now it feels like I'm screaming into the void on things.

Like, people have been suggesting a de jure drift speed rule setting like there was in CK2 pretty much since the game launched, but I haven't found any feedback on why that hasn't been followed up on. I think it's only a 'fringe' interest since the individual threads don't get a lot of votes. I can understand it if it's decided that it's not worth the hassle, but I'd still like to know if I'm going to have to focus on modding to get the game to work like I want it to.
 
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Do you guys know if the devs even care about these posts and threads ?

And do you think that our arguments / opinions / suggestions will be taken into consideration and change the game ?

Or is it just to get some feedback and they'll end up doing what the market and the numbers tell them to do regardless of what we think or want ?
They read stuff, many of the changes i dont like of CK3 from CK2 are things people whined about on reddit. The removal of ships for example.
 
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I feel like it should be like that though. There's a lot of historical examples of Rules go from nothing to being Considerable power: Rurik or Alexander.
They are exceptions though and a player with enough skill can carve out a fairly large empire even if their ruler has no Martial and no Prowess. Conquest is way too easy in the game in order to balance partition.
 
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I can vouch that on more than one occasion, I have personally brought up an issue in the forums and devs have subsequently addressed it. (By this I mean I raised a particular issue which I don't think had been raised by someone else already.) So, that's pretty good - I've never had that level of influence on other games, even when I've been a beta tester. Now on the other hand, my list of issues for CK3 probably runs to 30-40 items and I'll probably still have issues and pet peeves for the entire life of ck3 ;)
 
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I'd love to have some direct feedback on suggestions, though.
how time consuming would that be? this isn't a realistic expectation, especially considering that there are people out there who would post suggestions just for the attention or to pick a fight or for any number of unconstructive reasons
 
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how time consuming would that be? this isn't a realistic expectation, especially considering that there are people out there who would post suggestions just for the attention or to pick a fight or for any number of unconstructive reasons
Obviously bad faith low effort stuff can be ignored. I guess I just like to know what the process is so I know whether I need to bother putting my ideas out there.
 
Obviously bad faith low effort stuff can be ignored. I guess I just like to know what the process is so I know whether I need to bother putting my ideas out there.
if your ideas aren't out there, no-one will hear them ;)
 
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The Suggestion subforum could probably be a little more prominent. It's currently at the end of the list of subforums and, given that people regularly post suggestions in the main forum, a lot of people probably don't even know it exists.

Also, forget where I read this, but someone suggested of having a way to mark whether or not a suggestion had been read by a member of the dev team that way people can at least know if their suggestion has been seen. This is one of the more frustrating parts of making suggestions is that the only way to find out if it was read is for it to make it's way into the game. Obviously not all suggestions can or should make it into the game but someone way for people to know if their idea was a least read would be nice.
 
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The Suggestion subforum could probably be a little more prominent. It's currently at the end of the list of subforums and, given that people regularly post suggestions in the main forum, a lot of people probably don't even know it exists.
Maybe it's intentional to try to keep everyone who's not a TRUE HARDCORE GAMER from finding it and posting their filthy casual suggestions. :p
 
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I'd love to have some direct feedback on suggestions, though. Right now it feels like I'm screaming into the void on things.
Main issue with that is that its a big time investment, most of us on the team itself are not spending time reading every post and trying to respond to every thing because we're busy doing our job of making the game. And for our community team outside of a response that boils down to "we've seen it" they won't be able to respond in a way that gives more info without checking with someone else on the team first to see what the view on it is which then kinda defeats the purpose of it being a different role.

I think even having some seen checkbox is not going to really help, because people understandably want more info on what the thoughts on the idea are or plans than we can really give in a suggestion thread. I think there is some middle ground to be had there, but I don't think a direct response or just a seen checkbox really solves it either way.
 
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I think even having some seen checkbox is not going to really help, because people understandably want more info on what the thoughts on the idea are or plans than we can really give in a suggestion thread. I think there is some middle ground to be had there, but I don't think a direct response or just a seen checkbox really solves it either way.
I would be satisfied if the checkbox were a legally binding promise to drop everything and immediately implement my suggestion exactly as I have envisioned it, including all aspects which I have failed to mention or explain in my post. Surely that's not too big of an ask?
 
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The Suggestion subforum could probably be a little more prominent. It's currently at the end of the list of subforums and, given that people regularly post suggestions in the main forum, a lot of people probably don't even know it exists.

Also, forget where I read this, but someone suggested of having a way to mark whether or not a suggestion had been read by a member of the dev team that way people can at least know if their suggestion has been seen. This is one of the more frustrating parts of making suggestions is that the only way to find out if it was read is for it to make it's way into the game. Obviously not all suggestions can or should make it into the game but someone way for people to know if their idea was a least read would be nice.
I think it's best to assume that anything posted there is read by someone - whether or dev directly or a community person who then passes the info on to the devs. It is unlikely any posts in the suggestions forum (or bugs forum) are not read by the devs or passed on to the devs in the weekly reports unless somehow something slips through the cracks, which probably doesn't happen often. As @blackninja9939 said, having anything other than a detailed response from the devs isn't offering anything more useful than just the understanding that the posts are being read. There's really no need to provide any direct indication that they are read.
 
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Main issue with that is that its a big time investment, most of us on the team itself are not spending time reading every post and trying to respond to every thing because we're busy doing our job of making the game. And for our community team outside of a response that boils down to "we've seen it" they won't be able to respond in a way that gives more info without checking with someone else on the team first to see what the view on it is which then kinda defeats the purpose of it being a different role.
Thanks for the reply here, at least. I really appreciate it. :)
 
The hard truth is, not all suggestions are good, and some opinions are in stark contrast with the opinions of a significant majority, and that they aren't implemented doesn't mean they were ignored - just judged not worth implementing.
This is really important imo. For better or worse I’d rather play the result of a coherent vision of a development team. Obviously this can take inspiration from fans and suggestions/feedback but it has to be curated and filtered to some extent.

Speculation but I also suspect that trying to try to explain why a suggestion isn’t appropriate/doesn’t work/would create other problems/just isn’t liked by developers might often descend into a fairly unproductive discussion, given people tend to feel quite protective of their ideas and personal priorities.
 
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In my experience, people ask if devs listen to the "community" when they think their own opinion isn't heared.
But the thing is - there are a lot of opinions about the game that can appear popular on a forum, reddit or discord, but can actually be very controversial, or just straight up bad ideas, because people participating in that aren't devs, and writing a nice argument on a forum that will convince most people isn't the same thing as making a game.

This kind of situation doesn't arise so often for games that are already releases, but they are systemic because a Paradox game gets released (just check the CK3 forums before the game was released - there's a lot of speculation and popular threads by people with no clue), and it's even worse with games released in early access in general.

I think that we should mostly trust the devs. Paradox doesn't always release perfect games and DLCs, but most of the time the reason they don't is certainly not because "they don't listen to the community". Leviathan was rushed, Rajas of India was not polished and released at a time when the devs were having their Christmas vacations, etc. Most of the time, the devs would simply need more time and ressources to finish what they were working on.
And the thing is, collecting feedback also requires time and ressources.

A lot of people would probably feel very disappointed if they knew a dev read the first paragraph of their extensive and rather popular suggestion but decided to discard it because they think it wouldn't work / requires too much work for little benefit. So it's just better to trust the devs, even if it means not having clear indications from them. Let's consider that whatever we post on the forums are free food for thought and hope it's useful for them.
 
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The devs read stuff and care about feedback/suggestions. However, there are limits to what they can and will do even when they are aware of a suggestion (and -- let's face it -- the volume of posts is such that they can't reasonably read everything).

- Some suggestions are made by people that simply don't understand the game or what it is modelling. For example, "I should never be considered a tyrant for revoking a title from one of my vassals, since all the land in my realm belongs to me!" shows a lack of understanding of how feudalism works, so that suggestion would probably not go anywhere.

- Some feedback is unconstructive and/or rude. For example, "This mechanic is bad, and the person that made it should be fired!" doesn't tell them how something can be improved, and even if improvements were suggested I'd imagine the rudeness wouldn't exactly make the devs eager to please that person.

- Some suggestions are simply bad. For example, there are people that don't know history half as well as they think they do that suggest ways they think would make the game more accurate but that would have the opposite effect, and there are people that simply want to make their preferred playstyle/region/religion/culture/etc. better and that don't care at all if their suggestion would make things a lot worse for others (e.g. someone might suggest things that'd make playing as an independent ruler a better experience but that very obviously would screw over vassals to a massive extent and not see a problem with the suggestion because they have no interest in playing as a vassal).

- Some feedback is contradictory. For example, one person might feel that expansion should be easier while another might feel it already is far too easy to expand, and you obviously can't please both of them at the same time (unless you lock blobby CBs/anti-blobbing mechanics behind a game rule, but game rules aren't always a good answer).

- Some suggestions are too far removed from the devs' vision of what the game should be. For example, the game is very clearly designed around the idea that you play as a landed character belonging to a dynasty and keep playing as that character (or their dynastic successor) regardless of whether you lose your primary title, so a suggestion to move to something similar to EU4 where you keep playing as the same country regardless of which dynasty is in charge would likely not go anywhere.

- Some suggestions are unfeasible. For example, Total War-style battles would quite possibly be nice (at least if you like that kind of thing; I'd imagine not everyone does), but the game really isn't designed with something like that in mind, so even if the devs potentially might agree that it's a cool idea it's probably never happening.

- Some suggestions can't be dealt with in the immediate future due to being too large to get done alongside other things that are planned and/or due not being reasonable priorities based on what else is planned. For example, if someone had come up with a suggestion related to India while Northern Lords was being developed that the devs liked, it's possible it'd still have to wait if it was too large since it really wouldn't have been related to the theme of the expansion.

- Related to the above, a lot of people have a poor sense of both priorities and how long something would take to do. Some things that are being suggested that would require a fairly small amount of work to get done simply aren't as urgent to deal with as other things -- big or small -- and thus will likely be delayed until they are deemed a priority (or until some dev that feels strongly about the matter can find the time to get something done), and it is not uncommon for people to claim something would be trivial to do (e.g. "It'd take a dev five minutes to do this!") when it really wouldn't be.

- The devs doubtlessly have their own ideas as to what is and isn't right for the game (based on both personal preferences, any internal design documents that exist, and data available to them), and they might simply feel that what is being suggested is going to make the game noticeably worse in some regard (e.g. unacceptably inaccurate in some regard, terribly balanced in some regard, much slower to run, or less enjoyable without sufficient justification). At times, the devs' ideas might turn out to be not so great (and at times the community might correctly identify that something isn't a good idea when it is first presented), but there will also be times when the devs have ideas that turn out very well (possibly even in cases where the initial feedback was negative).


A related thing to note is that dev responses easily can be misconstrued in various ways, e.g. a "This is a cool idea!" meant to be read as "I personally like it, and maybe we'll do something like this at some point in the future!" might be taken as "I'll get started on this right away, ensure it gets implemented exactly the way you envision it, and promise it will be in the next patch!" (which tends to make the people taking it that way upset if the devs fail to deliver on what they see as a promise), and a "Sorry, but no" might be taken as "The devs hate [insert culture/religion/country/group/etc. related to the suggestion]!" (I suspect everyone here has seen threads like that pop up every now and then...). This might occasionally make the devs reluctant to comment on suggestions if they don't feel strongly about them and aren't prepared to make a promise regarding something, particularly if the devs reading a suggestion have run into that issue recently or believe (correctly or not) the person making the suggestion (or someone that's vocally supporting or opposing the suggestion) is someone they recognize as a person that previously misconstrued a dev statement and got upset.
 
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Let's be frank, most suggestions here are garbage. Most posters here fail to view a "problem" and their "solution" (that is "right" by their standards only) from a holistic perspective for the entire game. I can only hope that the only thing PDX gathers from these posts is at most an inspiration to create new ideas that mesh well with the game that's already there.
 
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Do you guys know if the devs even care about these posts and threads ?

And do you think that our arguments / opinions / suggestions will be taken into consideration and change the game ?

Or is it just to get some feedback and they'll end up doing what the market and the numbers tell them to do regardless of what we think or want ?
Yes.

In 2013, I posted about Cadet branches (was for CK2 though): https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...asties-it-might-not-be-what-you-think.732831/

In 2018 I posted a recommendation of dynamic cultures (was for CK2 though): https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/suggestion-dynamic-cultures.1097541/

In April this year I posted it again: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/ck3-whats-next.1461672/page-14#post-27429518

The next DLC will have dynamic cultures. And as of CK3 we got cadet branches. They do listen :D (Though I'm sure I'm not the first to mention these).
 
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