Do Sedentary pops get lost in space?

[Blurb]

That's exactly the tooltip I'm referring to.

As you can see from it, the 1.8% from housing isn't being factored into the headline "Immigration Pull: 115".
Likewise when Free Haven is active, while you'll see a "+50% Free Haven" modifier shown, the headline value will not change.
Is it working? isn't it? who knows!
Neither the tooltip nor anywhere else in the UI shows the 'effective' value, so we've got no easy way of verifying if it's actually doing anything.

From my own calculations, I'm pretty certain that the housing modifier is correctly accounted for - even if it is not displayed as such.
Presumably, other +X% pull modifiers are additive and suffer from the same bug.

Moreover, even if it is being applied, nowhere is it explained how that pull (or push) rating translates into actual pop migration values.
How much migration gain will you get if, for example, a planet had a pull rating of 1000? or even 10000?
Does it depend upon other planets' push ratings?
The total number, and population of other planets that you have migration access to?
Any other factors?
As far as I can tell, it's left completely unexplained.

There's simply no way of quantifying how good "+50% migration pull" is without this information, or if it's even working at all!

I provided that link specifically so you could answer these questions on your own.
Adding migration pull does not increase number of migrating pops, but it may skew how they're distributed.
In the case of a nation that has no migration treaties, the migration pull from free haven will have near-zero effects on migration distribution.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

I provided that link specifically so you could answer these questions on your own.
Adding migration pull does not increase number of migrating pops, but it may skew how they're distributed.
In the case of a nation that has no migration treaties, the migration pull from free haven will have near-zero effects on migration distribution.

Ah, didn't see the link; really useful insight!
That certainly answers a good number of the unknowns. Cheers!

Hmm, without knowing the size of your own migration pool, and that of any potential migration treaty partners, it really is still quite a blackbox.
That makes it almost impossible to determine whether any migration treaty will be a net gain for your empire or not.
Though knowing how badly the AI under develops their planets, I imagine most of the time it's good for human players.

 

[Dalwin]

The trouble is that if it worked as 'expected', sedentary would be a free point if not outright good. immigration is only good if it's stealing growth from another empire, or later game if it is shifting growth from an overcrowded world to one with available jobs.
Early game sedentry would probably be a positive since your built up worlds which lose growth to the colonies are probably better able to utilize the pops.

Nomadic would probably be a waste of a pick since migration from other empires means less of your nomadic pops growing to benefit from the increased growth.

That all assumes, among other things, that relocation is simply bad. Personally I find relocation to be rather strong. The other part of sedentary is a significant increase in the cost of relocation. Furthermore, migration is not a neutral concept even when the incoming and outgoing numbers match (as they obviously should do).

Your fledgling colonies are in desperate need of more population, especially since they receive half growth for the first ten years. Your established and crowded colonies can easily spare the population to get the new colonies from being useless to being productive much more rapidly.

In other words, in no way shape or form is sedentary a free pick, even if they fix this bug. Arguments to the contrary are simply rationalizations along the line of "Paradox is always right."

 

[Dalwin]

You are wrong here.

There are two sets of modifiers. One modifies immigration pull and emigration push. Thats what you just described. They work as you want them

The pop growth from settlement is a straight bonus/malus to that, it works as that and therefore IS a feature. Thanks

Seriously? Math does not work that way. If 0.1 pop migrates from world A to world B, then 0.1 gets subtracted from the former and added to the latter. It could not possibly be simpler than that. Amazing how befuddled your argument attempts to make that simple concept.

The other factors to which you refer do not change the above truth. They instead only modify the size of the transfer.

 

[Jorrhast]

Sedentary pops experience space madness and kill some of each other on the way.

Nomadic ones experience space lust and make babies on the way.

Headcanon accepted.

 

[Twogs]

Seriously? Math does not work that way. If 0.1 pop migrates from world A to world B, then 0.1 gets subtracted from the former and added to the latter. It could not possibly be simpler than that. Amazing how befuddled your argument attempts to make that simple concept.

The other factors to which you refer do not change the above truth. They instead only modify the size of the transfer.

And you want to make two modifiers do the same. While claiming it can't be a feature and planned that they work the way they do.

Wow that is ...

 

[Scorpio_Shirica]

Everything makes sense if you assume the numbers can change to whatever they want to in the middle of any calculation (or not). Where this really gets silly is if you apply this bit of non logic to the OP. Fewer sedentary pops migrate, simple enough. This should not mean, however, that those who chose not to migrate should commit suicide instead, which is actually what the game is doing.

I wonder if this plays into the pop growth wonkiness we've witnessed with life-seeded pops committing self extinction when you have migration treaties and high immigration. It appears some math is really broken on pop growth in this game.

 

[EvilTom]

I've also had slave population moved into a low habitability with their migration options turned off in species menu randomly decline. They just seemed to die off. Other planets were fine (and with such low habitability too).
They've done some weird things with the population growth in this game. Hopefully it will be balanced and a bit more thought out in future.

I wonder if migration could be better represented similar to the trade system with space routes showing where people are going. This would hopefully resolve the issue.

 

[Sigma 582]

Yes, they get lost in space.
Similarly, if you have positive migration % modifiers, new pops appear out of thin air.
As well, you may have planet full of Race A who emigrate and planet with pops of Race B growing because of that emigration.

None of these make any sense and is very annoying.

 

[BarnCape]

TBH i'm really confused about migration too

in 2.1 it was straighforward, you can see pop preparing to migrate with a green bag on a stick icon, and mouseover tells you where its going and how much time is left.

in 2.2 it seems that migration is abstract thing that makes pops out of thin air. Like if I just uplifted species, there are 3 pops of them in the galaxy right hete on the planet. But it says their pop growth gets plus 2 from immigration. Immigration from where?

Likewise when there us unemployment, it says pip growth gets -2 from emigrstion. What emigration, if I dont have any treaties, species rights say migration control enabled, and theur cutizenship is slaves.

But sometimes when housing is low, somehow i addition to negative number adjustment on pop growth, it also shows one of the pops with the green bag on a stick thing, and it says this pop is migrating away from the planet. In addition it shows their species in Declining pane. Also ignoring any type of controls you set. This bag on a stick is sticky to that pop and resettling them to new planet does not help, they start declini g there also.

Extremely confusing mechanic, I have no clue what triggers which migration and why there are two types

 

[yerm]

The % aspects to these traits are just nonsensical. They would be fine without them if the others were just beefed up:

Make sedentary outright disable any housed pop from emigrating and cost double to relocate. If you never move pops its a "free" pick but for decent gameplay not really.

Allow nomadic pops to be relocated under reasonable criteria (housing and habitability sufficient at destination) for free.

The whole space magic of the migration system's pop growth is unnecessary and absurd.

 

[Futharkk]

Thank you all for answering. After fidgeting a bit with species rights, it seems that if you are an authoritarian that make migration illegal, this still can be a quasi-free trait pick.