do other empires just not care I am turning people into livestock or nerve stapled slaves?

[taltamir]

I noticed that if you go around purging, everyone hates you.
But I don't see any real penalties for turning people into nerve stapled slaves or livestock. am I missing something? or is it just not that big a deal to the galactic community?

 

[ImaTomato]

You get an opinion penality for eating xenos.Nerve stapling doesn't give any penality.

 

[HFY]

The xenophile FE will hate you for having slaves.

There's an old CB ("stop atrocities") which forces you to make all your xenos into full citizens, and the 'phile FE can still use that CB on you.

I think most Egal and Phile empires will hate you for having slaves, but it's probably minor compared to the penalty you get for being a Phobe.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

Forget other empires, the actual pops you're nerve-stapling don't even mind!

 

[taltamir]

Forget other empires, the actual pops you're nerve-stapling don't even mind!

clearly the fact I haven't gotten around to nerve stapling them yet means I never will (or at least that is what I want them to think)

 

[TrotBot]

damn, actually nerve stapled should give some sort of opinion penalty, but it would have to be applied precisely to target applying a template with nerve stapled as a trait, just in case someone conquers a planet with nerve stapled pops you wouldn't want them to have the penalty till they got rid of the trait, would you?

 

[fusei]

For allowing slavery there is a -10 opinion modifier if the empire is egalitarian or xenophile (-20 if fanatic).

For using livestock there is a -25 opinion modifier if the empire is neither authoritarian nor xenophobe and another -25 opinion modifier if they are xenophile.

 

[TranscendentalDragon]

For allowing slavery there is a -10 opinion modifier if the empire is egalitarian or xenophile (-20 if fanatic).

For using livestock there is a -25 opinion modifier if the empire is neither authoritarian nor xenophobe and another -25 opinion modifier if they are xenophile.

which is essentially nothing, since opinion is measured in hundreds

 

[Mastikator]

Nobody cares about nerve stapling. Just because you're converting people into mindless automatons doesn't mean you're doing something bad, nor should anyone think it's a bad thing.

On one hand if it existed IRL it would 100% be considered a form of genocide. On the other hand, lmao who cares?

 

[Varren]

"Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?"

 

[TrotBot]

which is essentially nothing, since opinion is measured in hundreds

true, if the opinion modifiers for these things were buffed, it would help reduce the instances of fanatic egalitarian xenophile AI inviting slavers and xenophobes into our federation lol

 

[fusei]

which is essentially nothing, since opinion is measured in hundreds

Ideology is usually relevant at the start when there's no history to fall back on, but once there is Realpolitik beats ideology, yes they may be eating some of our main species for breakfast, but they have been staying on their side of the border for the last 200 years, unlike these jerks over there who think for some reason that we are not democratic enough.

 

[Mastikator]

true, if the opinion modifiers for these things were buffed, it would help reduce the instances of fanatic egalitarian xenophile AI inviting slavers and xenophobes into our federation lol

Nerve stapled pops can be residents too. So even if you buff the slavery penalty it won't change the fact that somebody has committed massive genocide (by nerve stapling a race) and neither the game (or this forum for some interesting reason) has anything to say about that.
For me it's removing the personhood (AKA killing) and entire race, for the galaxy it's a Thursday.

 

[TranscendentalDragon]

Nerve stapled pops can be residents too. So even if you buff the slavery penalty it won't change the fact that somebody has committed massive genocide (by nerve stapling a race) and neither the game (or this forum for some interesting reason) has anything to say about that.
For me it's removing the personhood (AKA killing) and entire race, for the galaxy it's a Thursday.

well, they can even be full citizens, as I found out after my shared burdens empire conquered 'phobe FE, but I take issue with you saying this forum doesn't care, as there was a whole thread a little while back about how egalitarian and 'phile empires shouldn't be just able to nerve staple, which resulted in that one user saying they do it all the time then immediately reverse it to pacify the recently conquered.

So, while I agree with the sentiment, I think you're wrong.

 

[Mastikator]

well, they can even be full citizens, as I found out after my shared burdens empire conquered 'phobe FE, but I take issue with you saying this forum doesn't care, as there was a whole thread a little while back about how egalitarian and 'phile empires shouldn't be just able to nerve staple, which resulted in that one user saying they do it all the time then immediately reverse it to pacify the recently conquered.

So, while I agree with the sentiment, I think you're wrong.

I know, I participated in it. I got "respectfully" disagree bombed for saying nerve stapling *is a form of genocide.

*by "is" I mean "should be considered" from diplomacy, at least from xenophiles and egalitarians

 

[fusei]

The problem is that Stellaris conflates two distinct concepts from Alpha Centauri:
1. Nerve Stapling: Removing higher brain functions from pops; Punishment for unruly pops; works much more through terror than the physical effect on those who are actually nerve stapled; atrocity
2. Genejack: A genetically designed being without higher brain functions; optimized for work; no atrocity

 

[HFY]

The problem is that Stellaris conflates two distinct concepts from Alpha Centauri:
1. Nerve Stapling: Removing higher brain functions from pops; Punishment for unruly pops; works much more through terror than the physical effect on those who are actually nerve stapled; atrocity
2. Genejack: A genetically designed being without higher brain functions; optimized for work; no atrocity

Yeah in SMAC the Nerve Staple button was the equivalent of a planetary decision, and immediately quelled the colony's rebellious population.

 

[Mastikator]

The problem is that Stellaris conflates two distinct concepts from Alpha Centauri:
1. Nerve Stapling: Removing higher brain functions from pops; Punishment for unruly pops; works much more through terror than the physical effect on those who are actually nerve stapled; atrocity
2. Genejack: A genetically designed being without higher brain functions; optimized for work; no atrocity

The thing is though, you're not just genetically designing a new people. You're converting existing people.

Converting a person into type 2 is still a big 'ol atrocity. There's no way you can square removal of personhood of an entire people as "not genocide".

This is the equivalent of assimilating bio pops into droids.

 

[fusei]

If you think too hard about it Stellaris' genemodding doesn't make too much sense as you can casually add and remove traits to and from existing pops, including nerve stapled.

 

[Erixperience]

Once it gets to be 2350 and I have enough diplo weight to effectively control the senate, I like declaring nerve stapling/livestock empires the crisis. It's pretty weird that xenophagia has such a low opinion malus, so I take care of it myself.