was curious. seems weird that in order to promote national armies that mercs are gaining the benefit from this.
do mercs benefit from professionalism?
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Is that explicit anywhere in the UI? I ask because it is made explicit that mercs don't benefit from drilling. It would make sense that they don't benefit from professionalism at all.
I've assumed that all troops benefit from the professionalism bonuses (I mean, you can't exactly have regulars having siege ability and mercs not...), but I haven't used mercs extensively enough to know for sure.
I'm fairly sure siege ability is a nation modifier and a leader modifier (siege specialist) and that there is no way for it to be merc or regular specific. I'm not sure how that would even work - 39 regs and 1 merc on the siege, do they get it or not?
Fire and shock damage done and taken are likely regiment level modifiers like discipline. It would make sense if mercs didn't benefit there. I guess it's testable, get a mixed army on a high profession nation, get into combat and look at the casualties regiment by regiment.
Yes... Merc DO get modifiers from professionalism, they do NOT get benefits from short-term modifiers with drilling since they are exempt of drilling... However, using mercs as a standing part of army will make you gain professionalism slower but might be better than losing professionalism just before going to war... To use the simple numbers, if FL is 10 and you use 2/3 merc 1/ 3 regular inf template (rest cav/art) you would have 4 mercs and 6 regulars... You will then be able to gain only 0.6% prof a year instead of 1%... On the bright side, you don´t have to worry about manpower as much, you don´t have to lose 5% for emergency manpower and cav/art will have most benefit of drilling anyway (which is also a very short-term strategy as it vanishes fast enough)...
And for all those who start flaming me about how wrong I am... this was checked in-game with a friend after a small theory session... So if I´m wrong it´s because of a bug, but professionalism is a national modifier, not troop modifier... Just like getting a national idea with 5% disc also applies to mercs
And for all those who start flaming me about how wrong I am... this was checked in-game with a friend after a small theory session... So if I´m wrong it´s because of a bug, but professionalism is a national modifier, not troop modifier... Just like getting a national idea with 5% disc also applies to mercs
strange and strange... it´s really strange that getting mercs that apply the same modifiers as your own ppl... it´s strange that early game before professional armies were a thing, and historically mercs were better trained and disciplined over peasants armed with weapons... While I personally would like the notion of having it being more complex, think PDX chose it for gameplay logic, so it would be easier to understand and know mechanics without differing from different types (they have gone a bit away from that recently, with merc disc, streltsy, banners, janissaries)...
but in many aspects, mercs were more professional soldiers than regular armies... They were paid to fight and were regularly used early EU4 period... Despite part of their pay were being looting, but that also applied to regular armies aswell anyway
I guess they cold solve it by giving a massive buff to mercenaries and greatly increase their upkeep, while nerfing regular troops until you reach a certain tech. Landsknechten were mercs so I dont know why they are regular units in this game.
Thematically perhaps, but for game balance, it's supposed to be something that makes regulars fight better than mercs in the late game with how plentiful money can become, especially in a multiplayer game.
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well a professonial soldier and a professional army may not necessarily be the same thing. anyhoo, there are other issues like mercs being absolutely reliable in this game, get national bonuses (e.g. for some odd reason, Prussian mercs hired in Lithuania fight like space marines....), and have no morale shortcomings.
if they're gonna make mercs have an infinite manpower pool, then they need to hurt their late game performance. otherwise, it's just merc spam in the 1700s and 1800s. they need to be phased out and have further drawbacks beyond ducats, which become wayyy too abundant over time.
I think we're putting a lot of emphasis on money when we talk about 'professional'. Professional in this case really is about people who fought for their country as their full time job, as opposed to levies who got called up from whatever they usually did when needed.
In EU4 I see mercs as soldiers who fight for money and riches, and regs as soldiers who fight for their country. Professionalism refers to whether those second kind of troops are full time professionals or not.
I'd still like to see the merc system overhauled to be more like CK2. You can get craploads of manpower now if you need it by cashing out your professionalism. In the late game once you have a base of 80 professionalism you can buy 2 years of manpower for 125 MIL.
In EU4 I see mercs as soldiers who fight for money and riches, and regs as soldiers who fight for their country. Professionalism refers to whether those second kind of troops are full time professionals or not.
I'd still like to see the merc system overhauled to be more like CK2. You can get craploads of manpower now if you need it by cashing out your professionalism. In the late game once you have a base of 80 professionalism you can buy 2 years of manpower for 125 MIL.
Considering the events which show up from overuse of mercs (such as them ransacking the country) I daresay that the Mercs aren't professional soldiers, they're just sellswords. Bandits and those who can swing a blade who serve their "master" not out of obligation to queen and country but for the almighty ducat.
And sometimes they decide that the payments from your nation aren't sufficient, they're going to get their own money. Hence the events with them degenerating into banditry and looting nations for giggles.
And sometimes they decide that the payments from your nation aren't sufficient, they're going to get their own money. Hence the events with them degenerating into banditry and looting nations for giggles.
They should make that reinforcing mercs also decay your professionalism not just at recruitment.
As long as its reasonable of course. There are some nations (such as Vijayanagar and quite a few Italian states just off the top of my head, there's plenty more) which depend quite heavily on their use, so crippling them completely for playing to their idea set would be a bit rude. It's one thing to go "Okay Ming and Ottomans, you do NOT need 100 professionalism and 200 mercs" but another to go "Okay everyone loses. Rocks fall you all die".
They could... But in reality, the main reason mercs were used and common was not just because of being professional... But that peasants were expected to be back tending the fields in autumn (or else mass starvation), and those who kept on front-line still had to be paid... Mercs didn´t have the same restrictions of summer campaigning and strictly used for "defending local area"... That changed when armies were becoming more professional, since they were not drafted in same way but were "standing" armies...
Would love for them to make "local armies" early on, (splitting doomstack too), where you rely on mercs to when fronts get wider... Would love for syrian armies to feel different than Greeks, despite being both owned by Ottoman... But that is only wishful thinking
Only thing... Professionalism does affect mercs too ;-) drilling doesn´t
at least overhauled and made more into condotieri use along with a different way to limit mercs and make them feel less generic
They don´t trigger because you overuse them... had 2 mercs out 60 FL... it triggered... wouldn´t call that overuse ;-)