Do excess stability bank?

[ecpgieicg]

Do stability above 100% bank? As in, if a stability event caused stability to overflow past its current limit -- normally 100% when not at war, is the overflow stored? If so, how much is stored?

The wiki says it does. But that is not what I am experiencing in my current game.

 

[davor999]

It does store, but it’s not always possible to get back to 100% if you’re at war. Maximum possible stability is reduced if the permanent modifiers are negative. Permanent modifiers are the ones listed when you hover over stability.
For example if you’re in an offensive war, that is -30%
Party popularity gives up to +15%, but if you have no other permanent modifiers then you will never be able to get over 85% while at war. Even if you click something that gives stability, like improved factory conditions, it still won’t go above 85%.

 

[ecpgieicg]

It does store, but it’s not always possible to get back to 100% if you’re at war. Maximum possible stability is reduced if the permanent modifiers are negative.

I am already aware of that.

My current max is 89%. The moment I introduced a new policy (it's a mod) that brings weekly change from +0.1% to -0.2%; stability dropped below within weeks. If it truly allows overflow, I had at least 25% in overflow.

Do you clearly remember a game where you observed overflow -- similar situation as above but observed a cushion in effect?

 

[mknote]

Party popularity gives up to +15%, but if you have no other permanent modifiers then you will never be able to get over 85% while at war. Even if you click something that gives stability, like improved factory conditions, it still won’t go above 85%.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure I've been at 100% stability while at war, and I don't think I had any other modifiers.

 

[billcorr]

Do stability above 100% bank?

Good question.

I'd recommend that the game inform the player if there is any "excess" stability.

I've often found myself unsure about "how much excess does my nation have?"

 

[DystopianAlphaOmega]

Yah, you can see this easily with Japan. They start with 95% stability and their first historical focus (purge Kodoha) gives them +10%, so nominally 105%. When they go to war with China, losing 30%, they have 75%, not the 70% they’d have if there was such a cap.

 

[ecpgieicg]

Yah, you can see this easily with Japan. They start with 95% stability and their first historical focus (purge Kodoha) gives them +10%, so nominally 105%. When they go to war with China, losing 30%, they have 75%, not the 70% they’d have if there was such a cap.

Is there a cap for overflow then?

I am seeing the opposite in my current game as Japan. Though I am using the Black ICE mod.

My current max is 89%. The moment I introduced a new policy that brings weekly change from +0.1% to -0.2%; stability dropped below within weeks. If it truly allows overflow, I had at least 25% in overflow.

 

[ecpgieicg]

Good question.

I'd recommend that the game inform the player if there is any "excess" stability.

I've often found myself unsure about "how much excess does my nation have?"

Well, if excess was actually there, yes there should be tooltip. At a minimum, the fact that excess is allowed can be included in the tooltip. The game could do with a tier 1 tooltip. And then a tier 2 after cursor has hovered over the same place for long enough. Tooltip is one of the things HOI4 uniquely needs a LOT more than other games.

 

[ecpgieicg]

Yah, you can see this easily with Japan. They start with 95% stability and their first historical focus (purge Kodoha) gives them +10%, so nominally 105%. When they go to war with China, losing 30%, they have 75%, not the 70% they’d have if there was such a cap.

I don't play vanilla HOI4 these days. Does Japan start of with any additional modifiers that gives `stability_factor = 0.5` or more?

 

[Beil]

So the key to understand is you can not build stability above 100% and if you are at 100% stability doing things that are not permanent buffs will not change your base stability. So things like improve worker conditions have no effect if you are at 100%, but if you get a leader buff, or focus etc that will still apply even if it made you go over 100% when you got it and can off set things like at war. You can think of it like there is the stability value that can be changed as well as buffs and debuffs that add and subtract to it. When you are at 100% the Base can not be changed, but you can have buffs that go can go over 100%

 

[bitmode]

So the key to understand is you can not build stability above 100% and if you are at 100% stability doing things that are not permanent buffs will not change your base stability. So things like improve worker conditions have no effect if you are at 100%, but if you get a leader buff etc that will still apply even if it made you go over 100% when you got it and can off set things like at war.

Yep, there is base stability (which is capped to 100%) and other stability modifiers. The sum of both is again capped to 100%. That is my understanding at least. The UI does not list current base stability separately.

Does Japan start of with any additional modifiers that gives `stability_factor = 0.5` or more?

emperor_showa has stability_factor = 0.6

 

[ecpgieicg]

So the key to understand is you can not build stability above 100% and if you are at 100% stability doing things that are not permanent buffs will not change your base stability. So things like improve worker conditions have no effect if you are at 100%, but if you get a leader buff, or focus etc that will still apply even if it made you go over 100% when you got it and can off set things like at war. You can think of it like there is the stability value that can be changed as well as buffs and debuffs that add and subtract to it. When you are at 100% the Base can not be changed, but you can have buffs that go can go over 100%

I can already guess that the game would make such a distinction. And after being prompted to check the opening situation of Japan, I do see the difference between `add_stability` and `stability_factor` in the game file.

What did (mis)lead me to think excess stability can bank is not that I don't understand the difference between the two, but instead the wiki says so.

 

[ecpgieicg]

emperor_showa has stability_factor = 0.6

I see. That clarifies it.

There is no banking. I'll update the wiki.

 

[ecpgieicg]

The UI does not list current base stability separately.

Just saw this part. The UI lists permanent stability modifiers via stability_factor. Or does it only list those added after the beginning?

I do think the tooltip can do better and HOI4 should really have implemented expanded tooltip upon hover.

But if not for the wiki, I wouldn't say the UI itself is misleading -- just ambiguous.

Thank you for the response!

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

I do think the tooltip can do better and HOI4 should really have implemented expanded tooltip upon hover.

It used to show 'base stability' value, no idea why devs removed it.

 

[bitmode]

Just saw this part. The UI lists permanent stability modifiers via stability_factor. Or does it only list those added after the beginning?

It does list them but once you've capped out at 0% or (more commonly) 100% the total and the stability_factors alone can not tell you anymore at what value the "hidden ingredient" is, i.e. base stability. For instance you can Improve Worker Conditions as Japan at the start (because your base stability is <100%) but the tool tip won't show the ongoing effect like it does for other countries because total stability already is 100%. So this naturally lead to questions like OP's where the stability is going and how much hidden stability there can be.
If the tool tip showed base stability as an explicit item, I think there would be much less confusion. I made the suggestion several months ago.

 

[davor999]

Base (capped at 100%) + modifiers is consistent with what I’ve seen in many games.
In practical terms this means once you hit 100% net stability, you can still “bank” the amount of your positive modifiers before going to war (Often ~15% political popularity).


They should absolutely show the base in the tooltip.

 

[ecpgieicg]

It used to show 'base stability' value, no idea why devs removed it.

I am seeing this in 1

.8.2:

 

[ecpgieicg]

Base (capped at 100%) + modifiers is consistent with what I’ve seen in many games.
In practical terms this means once you hit 100% net stability, you can still “bank” the amount of your positive modifiers before going to war (Often ~15% political popularity).


They should absolutely show the base in the tooltip.

It is a stretch to call that banking. I would be pronouncing the obvious if I say positive modifier is not changed when a negative modifier is added. Overflow stability beyond stability "base" at the time is discarded. Banking implies otherwise.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

I am seeing this in 1.8.2:

IIRC, it was removed around WTT (which is ironic considering that "boost stability for PP" decision was introduced in same patch). Granted, I hardly played back then, so might be wrong about exact patch (I do remember base stability being a thing, though).