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Fluffy_Fishy

Provveditore all’Arsenal
73 Badges
Feb 16, 2014
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  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
It was once the case that Italy was one of the most interesting areas in the world of EU4, as of recent patches it has become nothing but a highly developed into quite a mediocre area, despite it being one of the main sources of conflict in the early part of the game.

Currently very few of the Italian states have unique missions, with as far as I can tell the only ones receiving any real attention are Venice and Genoa, with the Papal states receiving 3 unique missions, events are a little better with some attention given but its clearly behind what other regions have. At least Milan have their own unique government to play with, although its not much of a consolation to the lack of depth in the region as a whole.


What I would propose is to see a fleshing out content pack looking at the Italian states, their missions, ambitions and events surrounding them. It would also be good to see something looking into a proper path to forming Italy, something that was discussed with great intent over the course of the renaissance with the hope a united italy would be better positioned to deal with powerful European nations.

It would be great to see something focusing on not only expanding the flavour of the Italians but also looking at what is really one of the most major conflicts of the early game period, The Italian wars, something that is currently handled by a series of about 5-10 events that don't really do anything, mostly contained within Austria France and Spain that doesn't really lead anywhere, the major incursions into the Italian peninsular by these nations seem more organic than anything, where France gradually eats into savoy or Aragon maintains their PU over Naples.


What I would like to see is a system where you can claim and counter claim an area properly, first unlocked through competitive powers looking with beady eyes in the Italian peninsular and its wealth. This system could be then rolled out on a worldwide setting, where you could have a framework to counterclaim the interests of other nations, either through the rival system or great power system, personally I would prefer to see it enacted through rivals.

Looking more finely at the idea of an Italian conflict it would be really cool to see something similar to the 30 years war mechanics involving leagues, where the major claimants, which is likely going to be Austria, France and Spain, but also could potentially include other major outside powers with desire to spread their influence in Italy such as the Ottomans, as ottoman influence in Italy is something I don't often see forming properly. Italian nations should be able to try to balance this out fairly fluidly, with nations being able to chop and change in and out of fighting leaving us with a much more prominent and meaningful Italian war, another possibility is a potential to unite the squabbling Italians to kick out the outsiders, beginning a path to unification, something that again would be really cool to see.


Thank you for reading, if anyone else has any other ideas they might like to see put into an Italian content pack please do add to my suggestions. Hopefully I have been clear enough, but feel free to criticise my ideas too :)
 
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San Marino is too small to be portrayed. Even Ancona may not be put into the game, and it’s definitely bigger.

San Marino is the best country though

It's literally existed in the same state since 301 AD

It should be in the game, and the fact that it's not already is extremely dissapointing. If you could do a world conquest with San Marino, that would be the most amazing thing, because it would be almost impossible.
 
San Marino is the best country though

It's literally existed in the same state since 301 AD

It should be in the game, and the fact that it's not already is extremely dissapointing. If you could do a world conquest with San Marino, that would be the most amazing thing, because it would be almost impossible.
The problem with San Marino is not the historicity of the city-state itself. On that I and nearly everybody else would agree with you. The problem is that the Republic to this day controls only three mountains and some of the surrounding area. Not big enough for a province in EUIV (which is a shame). I seriously doubt the devs would include anything Malta-sized or smaller on the map moving forward, and I would not blame them, as if they were to do so then it would open a huge Pandora's box that would make people call for things like every single minor bishopric or county in the HRE to be added, as well as similar things in other countries. We already have mods for that: Voltaire's Nightmare and Japonia Universalis come to mind. Sure those mods are fun, but they aren't what PDX wants to make the base game be. So I do not think we'd see San Marino and possibly even Ancona anytime in the near future: not because they would not be interesting or fun to play, but because the provinces themselves are just too small and I don't think the devs want to go down that road. But then again, that's just my opinion.
 
Reasons to make Papal State a key nation of special interest not only in Italy, but rather in whole Europe:
  • 1. Borgias: Pope Alexander VI and Cesare Borgia were closer than any other Italian realm to unite Italy than any other realm through EU4 timespan.
  • 2. The Holy See played a major role in forming the Protestant movement. By players' decisions it's now possible to halt the Reformation. However, there is too much random and no real consequences. IMO, the Papal States player should be able to define and shape the Catholic Europe and his actions should definitely result in some nations turn to Protestantism.
  • 3. IMO the Papal state should have some tall mechanics that would be designed prevent it from blobbing outside of Italy hard, but in return it should get some sort of innovativeness and\or development efficiency.
 
Reasons to make Papal State a key nation of special interest not only in Italy, but rather in whole Europe:
  • 1. Borgias: Pope Alexander VI and Cesare Borgia were closer than any other Italian realm to unite Italy than any other realm through EU4 timespan.
  • 2. The Holy See played a major role in forming the Protestant movement. By players' decisions it's now possible to halt the Reformation. However, there is too much random and no real consequences. IMO, the Papal States player should be able to define and shape the Catholic Europe and his actions should definitely result in some nations turn to Protestantism.
  • 3. IMO the Papal state should have some tall mechanics that would be designed prevent it from blobbing outside of Italy hard, but in return it should get some sort of innovativeness and\or development efficiency.
The papal states were nowhere near being able to unite Italy, they had a lot less land and capability than the previous attempt by Milan, The Papal states had no real way to properly take out the powerful states in the north, which is where you get the League of Cambrai from. this all takes things back nicely to my original suggestion to being able to properly represent the Italian wars, something that doesn't get nearly enough attention, despite being a total focal point of around a century of combat between the major European powers and the smaller Italian states.
 
I've revised my provinces and cultures
- Removed Pesaro
- Made San Marino bigger
- Added Pflaum and cut istria in half
- Added Dalmatian

https://imgur.com/a/as0013l

Oof Aloof!

That is a stunning rework, Ravenna could be a slightly nicer shape and the colour difference between Tuscan and Ligurian could be slightly more obvious but its really nice work.
 
I've also considered adding ladin in Sudtirol, because i love culturegore. (like bordergore, but with culures) However adding friulian, emilian, arpitan, slovene, griko, calabrese and dalmatian is probably enough to satisfy my eye-destruction.
 
I've also considered adding ladin in Sudtirol, because i love culturegore. (like bordergore, but with culures) However adding friulian, emilian, arpitan, slovene, griko, calabrese and dalmatian is probably enough to satisfy my eye-destruction.
Splitting cultures too much creates a few balance issues too, although the idea of having that many cultures with room for primary tags out there sounds exciting ;)
 
I've also considered adding ladin in Sudtirol, because i love culturegore.
Friulian, Ladin, and Romansh (a majority in the Swiss province of Graubünden) could potentially be combined into a single Rhaetic culture if one wishes to base it off of linguistic grounds, as the three languages together form the Rhaeto-Romance language family. It would also nicely allow for the culture to meet Paradox's 3-province minimum. However, language does not equal culture and other than linguistics these groups do not have enough in common to all be grouped together, though I could be mistaken about that. But I would still advise caution when talking about adding cultures: as @Fluffy_Fishy said, it can have a detrimental effect on balance.
 
I know this bump is a over a month after the latest post, but there are some things i'd like to suggest
1. Splitting Savoia into three instead of two, having Bugey, Ciamberi and Anneci (I think those last two are the correct italian spellings)
2. possibly making Zara/Zadar Dalmatian (because italy was given zara after world war one, so i'd assume there was a significant italian population there, which was probably above 50% in the 1440s, but I dunno. I'll have to fact-check this better)
 
2. possibly making Zara/Zadar Dalmatian (because italy was given zara after world war one, so i'd assume there was a significant italian population there, which was probably above 50% in the 1440s, but I dunno. I'll have to fact-check this better)
Only the city centre in Zadar had a large Italian population, and they mostly appeared after the 1444 start date and even then did not outnumber the amount of Slavs. Here is a map of ethnic groups in Austria-Hungary using census data from 1911 to prove my point:
2000px-Austria_Hungary_ethnic.svg.png
 
Only the city centre in Zadar had a large Italian population, and they mostly appeared after the 1444 start date and even then did not outnumber the amount of Slavs. Here is a map of ethnic groups in Austria-Hungary using census data from 1911 to prove my point:
2000px-Austria_Hungary_ethnic.svg.png
Okay, thanks for actually fact-checking my stuff, but there Rijeka is Italian, so it could potentially be dalmatian.
 
Okay, thanks for actually fact-checking my stuff, but there Rijeka is Italian, so it could potentially be dalmatian.
It very well could, but I have no idea if that was the case in the 15th Century. Keep in mind that Istria and the surrounding areas were devastated in the early 17th century by the Uskok War between Venice and Austria, as well as from several plagues and other natural disasters. This resulted in large demographic shifts as the peninsula was repopulated by Venetian colonists along the coast, and by Croatian refugees in the Austrian-controlled interior. As such, it is quite difficult to know for sure what the exact demographics of the peninsula were during this period, and so I think better sources would be needed to verify the culture of Rijeka/Fiume as unlike Dalmatia the region did undergo significant shifts in demographics during the game's time period.
 
I think that apart from new and better provinces Italy deserves:

• New mechanics: especially for Venice and The Papal States

•More flavor: especially for Italian countries without a single flavor event, like Savoy or Siena or Ferrara (the list is very long) and more events to represent the fate of the various parts of the Peninsula (Parma splitting off from Milan, Modena splitting off from Ferrara, Alphonse V deliberately breaking the union over Naples and so on). More unique missions, decisions and NI could also be nice.

I’m currently working on both points, and I will post my results in the future ;)
 
Savoy could definitely do with some more flavour, particularly in the form of missions as it currently has no unique ones to speak of. For the country which would go on to unite Italy, not having unique missions or flavour (other than the ability to form Sardinia-Piedmont) is simply inexcusable and in dire need of attention. Though I am no expert on the area myself, I have seen a few proposals around here on the forums so there are definitely some good ideas out there.

To end off the conversation about Dalmatian, as I don't wish to hijack this thread any further, I'll be creating a thread about Ragusa and Venetian Dalmatia so that conversation can be continued there to allow for the Italian mainland to receive more attention here ;)
 
Savoy could definitely do with some more flavour, particularly in the form of missions as it currently has no unique ones to speak of. For the country which would go on to unite Italy, not having unique missions or flavour (other than the ability to form Sardinia-Piedmont) is simply inexcusable and in dire need of attention. Though I am no expert on the area myself, I have seen a few proposals around here on the forums so there are definitely some good ideas out there.

To end off the conversation about Dalmatian, as I don't wish to hijack this thread any further, I'll be creating a thread about Ragusa and Venetian Dalmatia so that conversation can be continued there to allow for the Italian mainland to receive more attention here ;)
Where abouts will you be creating it so I don't miss out?
 
Where abouts will you be creating it so I don't miss out?
It'll be here in the Suggestions Forum, and I plan on (hopefully) releasing it sometime in the next couple of days. I'm still working on a new Ragusan mission tree at the moment which I would like to have more or less finalised before posting, as well as some events I would also like to write up first. I can notify you once I post the thread if you would like :)