DLC!

[Reaperdamo]

Everytime i think about booting this game back up I check out the DLC and see that i have about $30 worth to buy and that some of the DLC now has its own DLC (the last i bought was "way of life").....I know its not popular to say anything negative about Paradox and their DLC strategy, but i am really starting to hate this policy. I think that the DLC for Ck2 was made at the beginning out of love for the game and the fans, but then somewhere along the line a lightbulb went off in the marketing/finance dept. and it became their raison d'etre. How to milk the fans dry and how to break down an expansion into three dlc every 3-6 months. I think this may coincide with them being bought or going public or something. There I have said it.....I am not a fanboy anymore, and that makes me sad. Help me see the light......am I being completely unreasonable?

 

[shiro the bushi]

There's the steam sale, paradox sales and Other sales
Cant remember last Time i bought dlc full price

 

[PK_AZ]

and how to break down an expansion into three dlc every 3-6 months

For example?

 

[Parapluman]

..I know its not popular to say anything negative about Paradox and their DLC strategy

You must not have had time to visit the EUIV or stellaris forums lately. It's currently very popular to say anything negative about Paradox. ^^

OT: I understand where you are coming from. Whenever dlc has been released that I don't own I feel like I'm playing an incomplete game, but I have to remember that I'm not playing a lesser game than I was before and honestly there's usually a lot of free stuff with every patch as well.
(Besides you cant really blame paradox, a commercial company, for wanting to make money off of their products.)

And as Shiro said you can wait until a steam sale before picking up the DLC which is usually what I do.

 

[steveo_in_sd]

Is the game you bought now inoperable? I don't understand how people get mad about the DLC. They are adding brand new features more than four years after the game came out. What other major developer does this? Your gaming experience is not harmed if you don't buy them, just keep playing the game you originally bought and enjoy the free stuff that comes your way with every game patch (or use one of the older versions if you don't want the new free stuff). Paradox isn't going to keep making new content and give it all away for free, why would they do that? This paid DLC approach means that I have gotten a tremendous value from my initial buy, and have had thousands of hours of fun playing it. If there had been no DLC, I would have stopped playing after 6 months to a year. Instead, here we are talking about it much later.

 

[mrinku]

I picked up CK2 as a "Gold Edition" physical disk last year on special and haven't paid list price for any of the expansions. Aside from some of the more recent cosmetic packs, I'm up to date. Hundreds of hours of play and I'm still trying new stuff, let alone the mod side of things.

Get the DLC you want. Some of it is very optional anyway, depending on whom you're playing (Sunset Invasion, Way of Life, Republic, Horselords, Rajas of India, Conclave, even Sword of Islam and Legacy of Rome if you're playing a small realm game in NW Europe).

Worth mentioning that by the time Paradox get the major bugs out, it's usually a few months after release and you can rely on a sale price. That's what's worked for me!

 

[Reaperdamo]

Thanks guys. I'll guess I'll start a game and wait for a sale. Quite interested by conclave, but I do like the face packs, especially for a game with characters. Like you said it's not like I'm missing anything until I've bought it.

 

[SaphireSeas]

Thanks guys. I'll guess I'll start a game and wait for a sale. Quite interested by conclave, but I do like the face packs, especially for a game with characters. Like you said it's not like I'm missing anything until I've bought it.

I got most of the facepacks for about NZ$1. At about ~75% off. Wait for the sale.
I want conclave to. Looks interesting. probably be 33% off in sale after next DLC is released.

 

[Nyrael]

The gap between DLC is growing so I really don't see how this has anything to do with milking. With such gaps, it would be more profitable for them to either move the CK2 team to another project or to boost DLC releases for EU4 or Stellaris.

 

[shiro the bushi]

Thanks guys. I'll guess I'll start a game and wait for a sale. Quite interested by conclave, but I do like the face packs, especially for a game with characters. Like you said it's not like I'm missing anything until I've bought it.

next steam sale starts on the 23rd, conclave should been out long enough for its price to drop,

 

[Metz]

I think DLC's are now every 4 months, so 3 per year.

No competent mid-level business gives out stuff for free (unless its to make up for a screw up). The more money Paradox make, the more quality their games can be.

When you buy a music album from an artist, the new albums that come out afterwards shouldn't be free. It's new stuff after all.

The DLC's Paradox sells are new stuff in an already existing game. You don't need them. You can play them just fine the way they are. Any existing problems are dealt with through patches not DLCs. The itch of wanting to have a "fuller" game is what gets to people. Having to give to receive is what bothers them. It's a feeling of self-entitlement and frustration at having to spend. This is the reality of capitalist and consumption life not a socialist government program.

 

[Jayavarman]

I have been with Paradox since the original Europe Universalis and Hearts of Iron. Those were horrible times that I do not want to return to: frustratingly waiting 3 to 5 years for a sequel to add new features to the game. Dedicated superficial patches stopped after 6 or 12 months. Any additional patches was developed/tested on the programmers' (Johan's) personal time.

Now, games like Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis 4 are staying alive and comprehensively updated for years. This is what I wanted 15 years ago. Pay up and do not stop!

 

[Robert II]

I have been with Paradox since the original Europe Universalis and Hearts of Iron. Those were horrible times that I do not want to return to: frustratingly waiting 3 to 5 years for a sequel to add new features to the game. Dedicated superficial patches stopped after 6 or 12 months. Any additional patches was developed/tested on the programmers' (Johan's) personal time.

Now, games like Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis 4 are staying alive and comprehensively updated for years. This is what I wanted 15 years ago. Pay up and do not stop!

The only problem is ck2 is currently buckling under its own weight. There's been too much added.

 

[Jayavarman]

The only problem is ck2 is currently buckling under its own weight. There's been too much added.

Real "buckling" will result in declining DLC sales and gameplay hours. If those trends are recorded as true on Steam, Paradox will then cease DLC development and begin working on a sequel. The choice is yours!

 

[Rationalsanity]

Remember that a lot of that DLC is just cosmetic stuff and music. The only DLC of substance since way of life is Conclave.

Unfortunately I do see Conclave as a breach of the game's previous DLC policy; because of the nerfs brought in with 2.5 playing without Conclave (and its ability to shut down vassal rebellions) is a lot more difficult.

 

[CannotresistDLC]

I play without Conclave just fine - except for the silly way Alliances work right now and additions to the game included with the patch (threat mechanics), CK2 plays a lot like it did when I last touched it pre-Horse Lords.

I don't have a problem with the way Paradox is handling DLC content right now. I'm not a fan of Conclave (though I obviously can't really try it out without buying it) but to still have relatively inexpensive yet IMO meaningful expansions and patches added to a game that is already fantastically complex and relatively old is much better value for my dollar than most games manage to provide even with the original release. I think Paradox strikes a pretty good balance.

 

[mrinku]

I had no trouble playing for six months without Conclave (caveat - my game during that period was a vassal based one, which makes a difference). But I do recommend it - the actual DLC features are good, and I'd pick out the new way of doing laws as a big improvement.

 

[Quaade]

I have been with Paradox since the original Europe Universalis and Hearts of Iron. Those were horrible times that I do not want to return to: frustratingly waiting 3 to 5 years for a sequel to add new features to the game. Dedicated superficial patches stopped after 6 or 12 months. Any additional patches was developed/tested on the programmers' (Johan's) personal time.

Now, games like Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis 4 are staying alive and comprehensively updated for years. This is what I wanted 15 years ago. Pay up and do not stop!

I agree that this proves the best way to improve on a game we love, while giving PDX a net-income instead of spending a huge amount on developing a "new" title every other year, so we would have CK5 and EU8. However there should be a time to stop and gather yourself and ask, would this be the time to make some major upgrades in the form of a brand new game, building on what we already learned (know it can´t be a direct extension, but still have some similiarities since I suppose most features are well worked out and you support them in the game).

Real "buckling" will result in declining DLC sales and gameplay hours. If those trends are recorded as true on Steam, Paradox will then cease DLC development and begin working on a sequel. The choice is yours!

Personally I went away from CK2, it just didn´t seem to "fit" anymore and don´t think any DLC will have the ability to change it up enough to do so. Will probably still buy the DLC to try out and support PDX (since I want you to create great games). But I believe when "buckling under it´s own weight", refers to performance issues, not sales issues.

As a responsible developer you should know when to draw the line, not just because of sales figures. Also since you don´t want to lose the customer base that would have bought CK3, just because you kept milking CK2 DLC until sales were noticeable enough.

There must also be some voices and ideas in the office that floats around, that can´t be done under the current engine... Make the best game ever possible, be it DLC or a new game. But don´t base it on the sales (makes it sound greedy and is not reflective to how great the game is, just how many fanboys you have that support you, myself included which only have roughly 20 hrs into Conclave), base it instead on how the game is handling, how the game you want to have can be made in the current engine...

In short, don´t wait making a new game until customers have been scared off buying DLC.