DLC request: Realism

[AtomicAllele]

nah I think this is mod territory, speaking of which there is a thread for a realism thread on the forums too

 

[ZyZla]

I still think the StarTrek mod would be more like it as StarWars represents just Empire and rebels, nothing else... While StartTrek is more or less the game itself just would need some tweaks and not generic galaxy map with some already established territories...

 

[Finnway]

Yeah total conversions are mods, but in terms of complexity they are on a whole other level

Sorry, I didn't realize semantics were so important to you.

Spoiler

I edited my post....

 

[Exemplar Voss]

This may go over like the proverbial planet eating space aoemeba in the core systems, but if Stellaris is anything like any of the other Paradox games, there's going to be a veritable shite-tonne of DLC for the game. Heck, it's not even out, and we're starting to cosmetic DLC.

The problem with this sort of DLC is it doesn't interact well with Paradox' DLC model, which is very simply, modifications to the base game and everything further on takes those modifications as standard. A shift to 'hard scifi' changes in these areas renders much of the game nonfunctional, and frankly changes the type and style of game as well.
(What do you do with all the anomalies? Delete them? They aren't hard-sci fi!)

Some of the other stuff... the game assumes populations in the billions. Tracking 0.0001% (or smaller!) of the population for ship crews and production* is just too far below the scale of the game. It would be like tracking horse populations, individual pounds of iron, and the breeding rates of individual soldiers for CK2.

*Production is definitely another scale issue. Units of energy and minerals are, effectively, just what is available to your government at the time. They don't represent the total production of billions of people, just taxes, requisitions and government owned (or contracted). The general population can be assumed to be producing home furnishings, housing, sodas, comics, entertainment and whatever, none of which really applies to building ships, armies or space stations. Any ship building process is going to be limited by the number of bodies (or large scale machines) you can get around components. That tops out well below any percentage of population worth tracking, especially since ship production quite sensibly takes place in orbit, rather than expending more energy trying to get components out of the gravity well.

Finally... scale issues. This is UI/Design element. The ships need to be easily visible and accessible to players, as they are the most important game element- the pieces used most often. Making them smaller is flat out bad for the game.

 

[Admiral Howe]

ou insist, in dogmatic terms, that "fun" and "realism" are atomic substances that are distinct.

No, reread please.

I insist that fun and realism are separate concepts (which, they are) and that in a game, in normal circumstances, how fun something is is more important than how real it is. This is quite simply displayed with the sheer number of games that are fun while being completely unrealistic - and the sheer number of games that are deeply realistic without being fun.

And I've qualified that to heck that there are situations where adherence to realism is important to the fun of a game. If you don't want to accept my concession on that, that's fine. But, keep in mind, folks demanding realism but not demanding FTL be removed aren't really asking for realism. More like they wish this game ran in MS Excel.

 

[Alexander Seil]

I don't understand why you believe a hard sci-fi strategy game to be an impossibility. I'm not saying it can be done as a mod, though.

 

[Admiral Howe]

I don't understand why you believe a hard sci-fi strategy game to be an impossibility. I'm not saying it can be done as a mod, though.

Didn't say one was, and I deeply apologize if that implication came across. I'm just voicing caution that such a project has to make sure it's realism & fun

<edit: Corrected realm to realism. Kids, don't quickly try to finish a post when your boss is walking up behind you. >

 

[Alexander Seil]

Well, that I can agree with.

 

[Xykon]

All of the suggestions in the original post would make for an excellent mod along the lines of CK2+ and HIP, and I'd definitely download such a mod. However, it's a bit too much of an overhaul of the game to be a dlc. In fact, now might be a good time to start brainstorming a (mostly) realistic mod.

 

[Premu]

One thing I'd like to see is various ways to handle energy and fuel. Stars! had ships consume fuel, and refuel automatically at starbases, which provided infinite fuel for free. Going faster consumed more fuel per turn, so you had to decide if you wanted to get from Point A to Point B quickly, or go more slowly and conserve fuel. Fuel transports were an important asset, too, particularly since they were essentially mobile "fuel factories" that generated fuel each turn.

Would be nice to have different kinds of powerplants and energy sources (nuclear reactors, solar panels, what have you) and fuel. It sure added another level of depth to Stars!.

You know that space ships don't really need fuel once they are on their path and out of the atmosphere? If you want a realistic simulation of fuel usage in space travel - have a look at Kerbal Space Program. And you'll see that you can either add some highly unrealistic fuel usage model in a game with a scope like Stellaris, or keep it out entirely.

 

[Finnway]

All of the suggestions in the original post would make for an excellent mod along the lines of CK2+ and HIP.

That's what I've been thinking! And granted, some posters are probably right that it's not possible to make a truly, 100% accurate realism mod. Heck, if it was 100% accurate there wouldn't even be FTL! But I still think a modding team could make lot's of changes to improve the realism of the game while simultaneously preserving the fun factor, even if it's still largely inaccurate.