DLC request: Realism

[VI Imre]

Hey OP, ever tried Aurora 4x? You'll get that and more. Much more. Even more than you now just tried imagine. So much more that you'll probably fail miserably -- at least that was my first experience -- at the first few tries trying to comprehend what more means. The point is, play games for fun, and Aurora is fun to a point where it becomes a micromanagement nightmare. More details is a good thing but too much might make the game tedious and unmanageable for the casual players.

 

[urkuru]

OP, Mayhaps your suggestion would work better as a mod. After all none of Paradox DLC does that kind of overhall, works more on improving aspects of game and introducing some new features.

I like your ideas though and I hope to see s mod of it

 

[Vasious]

If nothing else, if you gave the ships realistic sizes, you would not be able to see them at all

 

[Admiral Howe]

There's a reason why 'realism' is the least important part of game design. And this thread provides excellent evidence supporting that reason.

 

[Admiral Howe]

Hey OP, ever tried Aurora 4x?

I'd forgotten about that title so I went and looked...yegads the pain.

It's like someone mated the UI of MS Access and the graphics engine of the original Asteroids...but in a way less compelling than either component. That's a terrifying thing to do, pray it's never weaponized.

 

[Alucardex]

Wow that doesn't sound like DLC that sounds like a totally different game.
Maybe Stellaris just isn't the game you are looking for?

 

[Alexander Seil]

There's a reason why 'realism' is the least important part of game design. And this thread provides excellent evidence supporting that reason.

This thread also provides alternatives. Realism can very much be a goal of game design. See flight simulators.

 

[13Foxtrot]

realism flies in the face of trope.....

as mentioned this would be mod territory...

 

[Texas_Jack]

This thread also provides alternatives. Realism can very much be a goal of game design. See flight simulators.

While true, nothing about this (or any) Paradox game in the past have been at the "simulator" level of detail, complexity, or accuracy.

 

[Admiral Howe]

This thread also provides alternatives. Realism can very much be a goal of game design. See flight simulators.

I've listed this several times, and will do here again: Fun > Gameplay > Balance > Design > Realism. That's the general scheme and, depending on the game, there may be linkages to consider too. In a flight sim Realism is tightly linked with fun. In a superhero game they're barely talking.

In a 4x Space game, Realism is clearly in the back seat and dedicating too much to it kills the fun - which is always king.

 

[Finnway]

@S.C. Watson I'd really like to play a variation of Stellaris with a lot of the things you're suggesting. However.... I think it's much better suited to a modding team than to a DLC.

Trouble is, some people don't want the things you're suggesting, and Paradox has to try to please as many of their customers as they can. The good news is Stellaris is designed to be as moddable as possible! So I'm sure someone will make a mod with an emphasis on realism

edit: Also, don't feel bad about all the downvotes your post is getting. A lot of people here overreact to what they perceive as criticisms of their favorite games.

 

[Finnway]

In a 4x Space game, Realism is clearly in the back seat and dedicating too much to it kills the fun - which is always king.

That said, there are some people who want to play a realistic Space 4x. And there's nothing wrong with them attempting to do that with a total conversion mod.

 

[Alucardex]

That said, there are some people who want to play a realistic Space 4x. And there's nothing wrong with them attempting to do that with mods.

Sounds more like total conversion to me.
I mean I guess it could be possible to mod the game in this direction but it would take some serious dedication and knowledge of actual game design.

 

[Finnway]

Sounds more like total conversion to me.

Umm.... Total Conversions are mods?

I mean I guess it could be possible to mod the game in this direction but it would take some serious dedication and knowledge of actual game design.

So would a Star Wars mod. So would a Mass Effect mod. So would any Total Conversion mod. So I fail to see WTF your point is.

 

[Admiral Howe]

That said, there are some people who want to play a realistic Space 4x. And there's nothing wrong with them attempting to do that with mods.

Oh no, I quite agree and would feel bad if I come across otherwise.

Biggest hurdle I can see for a realism mod, though, would be making the game something other than Stellaris. Killing the core of what looks to be a phenomenal game for the sake of realism would be a pity.

 

[Alexander Seil]

I've listed this several times, and will do here again: Fun > Gameplay > Balance > Design > Realism. That's the general scheme and, depending on the game, there may be linkages to consider too. In a flight sim Realism is tightly linked with fun. In a superhero game they're barely talking.

In a 4x Space game, Realism is clearly in the back seat and dedicating too much to it kills the fun - which is always king.

I don't think there is a One True Creed when it comes to game design. Given that Stellaris is a campy Star Trek in space kind of deal, I don't see a hard sci fi mod being feasible or even desirable, but it's a kind of game someone could conceivably want. If everyone adopted your dogma, we wouldn't have things like DCS or Dwarf Fortress.

 

[Seirkins]

This definitely sounds like mod territory rather than a DLC that becomes the official branch of the game.

 

[Alucardex]

Umm.... Total Conversions are mods?

So would a Star Wars mod. So would a Mass Effect mod. So would any Total Conversion mod. So I fail to see WTF your point is.

Yeah total conversions are mods, but in terms of complexity they are on a whole other level than say a UI mod or adding some more planet types or something like that.

As for your second point: I think making a Starwars mod would probably be a lot easier.
Think about it: That mod would still use the same basic gameplay mechanics. You just need a ton of new textures and soundeffects etc.

A realism mod on the other side needs to tweek the underlying game systems or build on top of them. That's a lot more complicated.

 

[Admiral Howe]

If everyone adopted your dogma, we wouldn't have things like DCS or Dwarf Fortress.

I believe you need to brush up on "dogma" if you're applying it my comments.

I'm just relaying a good, general, rule of thumb for order of importance in building a game - a fast and simple set of best practices if you will. I fully acknowledge that, based on the project, the individual parts may shift - though fun will always be paramount as this we're talking about an entertainment product.

And DCS, Dwarf Fortress, etc, are precisely from general best practices being interpreted by inspired designers to their specific project so you'll have to live with "dogma" being of value.

 

[Alexander Seil]

I believe you need to brush up on "dogma" if you're applying it my comments.

I'm just relaying a good, general, rule of thumb for order of importance in building a game - a fast and simple set of best practices if you will. I fully acknowledge that, based on the project, the individual parts may shift - though fun will always be paramount as this we're talking about an entertainment product.

And DCS, Dwarf Fortress, etc, are precisely from general best practices being interpreted by inspired designers to their specific project so you'll have to live with "dogma" being of value.

You insist, in dogmatic terms, that "fun" and "realism" are atomic substances that are distinct. The line can get pretty blurry, which is why I bring up DCS, where forumites rage if some obscure cockpit switch that does nothing (in regular gameplay, outside of emergencies that happen in 0.001% of all flights) except lengthen the start-up is non-functional. Why? Because it's immersion-breaking, and immersion is ultimately what those sims are about, even if, to a game designer who subscribes to the "fun is separate from realism" doctrine, a longer checklist for the sake of a longer checklist would sound utterly absurd. Closer to the sci-fi theme, I've thrown some money at the early access Rogue System, which takes a hardcore approach to space flight sims, building, effectively, "DCS in Space" (with some hand-wavy energy physics as a foundation for realistic-feeling systems, in a full Newtonian model).