DLC PROPOSAL #2: Senate and representative Mechanic

DLC PROPOSAL #2: Senate and representative Mechanic

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Atlantians

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A Senate and representation!

This is a Proposal for a DLC introducing a Senate and representation mechanic to expand on the concepts and mechanics in Conclave! This would also enable inland republics.

This proposal is my second proposal for future DLC. The first proposal is here:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...roposal-standing-armies.910397/#post-20714669

This mechanic would be designed to expand on the current council mechanics, and introduce a representative body of appointed magistrates that can be appointed from count or duke tier vassal courts as representatives.

1) Playable inland republics with elected Ministers, similar to a Doge, but broader in representation.
(Senate available at the Duchy tier.)

2) Larger Merchant Republics (available in the game already), but the mechanic would help a Doge manage larger areas). (Senate available at the Duchy tier.)

3) For a senatorial Monarchy like a Restored Roman Empire/Restored Roman Republic.
(Monarchies would only have the senate mechanic available at the Kingdom or Empire tier.)

Composition -
A) The mechanic would be deactivated if the Senate/Parliament either didn't exist or was abolished.

B) An established Senate/Parliament would exist as largely ceremonial, similar to an empowered council without powers.

C) If the council has been empowered, a Monarch would have to form the senate with the approval of the council.

D) Members of the Senate could either be (depending on laws):
D1) A representative appointing by each count (or duke, depending on the laws) tier vassal in the realm.
This would be the case if the Senate was a representative body.

D2) Appointed by the Council from each count (or duke) tier vassal.
If the Senate was a representative body under the advisory of an Empowered council with appointment powers.

D3) Appointed by the Monarch or Doge/Minister of the realm.

Interaction with Ruler -
Depending on the Laws, the Senate would interact with the Ruler in these ways:
A) Senators could be appointed by the Ruler, if the Ruler retains appointment power.
B) Senators would elect a new Ruler in certain setups, like a restoration of the old Roman Republic (as a form of inland Republic) or be the deciding body for the electing of the Patrician in the merchant Republics.
C) The ruler could appeal to a sufficiently powerful Senate to overrule his Council to avoid tyranny.

Interaction with Council -
Depending on the Laws, the Senate would interact with the Council in these ways:
A) The Council could appoint Senators, if given the power to do so.
B) The Council could revoke Senators, under the same power.
C) The Senate and Council would either share voting power on each area of Government, or would compete for the power to act in each case. Whether granting titles, going to war, etc. Either both have the voting power, neither would have that power, or powers are held by only one of the two.
D) A sufficiently powerful council could be appealed to by the Ruler to overrule the Senate, to avoid tyranny.

Interaction with Vassals-
A) If the Senate is designated as a representative body, each count (or Duke) tier vassal in the realm would elect their own representative.

What would a Senator be?

A senator would either be:
1) county (or duchy) level count/duke,
2) a member of said vassal's court,
3) a member of the vassal's council.
 
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Atlantians

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@Aardvark Bellay and @NathanD77 , it is offensive that you would just 'disagree' with my post after all the thought and effort I put into it.

What are you disagreeing with, exactly?

I would appreciate some feedback and interaction, rather than just an 'x' mark on my post.
 
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Rags17

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Check out the modding subforum. Someone found that you could give the voting right to anyone in the game, not just Councilors. The idea would be to create a new honorary title called "Senator" ort whatever and allow up to say 15-20 of them to be handed out. You could then glut the Council with voting members, the fun would come when you wanted to revoke those honorary titles because the holders were becoming too uppity.

Minor titles can be given gain and lose effects, so if you wanted you could also tie the Senator title to certain laws, say if Council is powerful then Senators can no longer be fired, but if it is weak then they are merely figureheads. You could also create two classes - Lords and Commons and make the titles only issuable to landed vassals (Lords) or Mayors (Commons)

With a bit of work modding the appropriate government types, minor tiles and decisions I am sure that a variety Parliamentary systems could be simulated.
 
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Atlantians

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Check out the modding subforum. Someone found that you could give the voting right to anyone in the game, not just Councilors. The idea would be to create a new honorary title called "Senator" ort whatever and allow up to say 15-20 of them to be handed out. You could then glut the Council with voting members, the fun would come when you wanted to revoke those honorary titles because the holders were becoming too uppity.

Minor titles can be given gain and lose effects, so if you wanted you could also tie the Senator title to certain laws, say if Council is powerful then Senators can no longer be fired, but if it is weak then they are merely figureheads. You could also create two classes - Lords and Commons and make the titles only issuable to landed vassals (Lords) or Mayors (Commons)

With a bit of work modding the appropriate government types, minor tiles and decisions I am sure that a variety Parliamentary systems could be simulated.
I am nowhere near good enough of a modder to even start such an ambitious project.

This thread is intended as an in depth DLC feature proposal for the base game.

It is good to know that the mechanics already exist for something like this to be viable.
 
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killerbee256

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I rather not have a senate or parliament, it's been 400 years in my current game and I still can't get late administration or increase women's rights because 2 or 3 people are against those laws.
 
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I rather not have a senate or parliament, it's been 400 years in my current game and I still can't get late administration or increase women's rights because 2 or 3 people are against those laws.
Well, on the bright side, the way I proposed the senate mechanic; you wouldn't be able to have a senate yet either. :p
 

mjohnson85

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I think there are 2 major concerns with this.

1-It is very targeted as far as how many people would actually use that (I'm not saying it wouldn't be useful). It only is really relevant to republics and were there actually any senators in CK2 timeline (I don't recall seeing anything of the sort while researching the major republics in game)? If we look at the pattern for DLC (especially considering the fact that no map expansions are in the works) we observe that they are more general in nature - everyone is effected.

2-This is really important and is something you probably wouldn't know unless you visited the modding sub-forum. The republic coding is very messy and the devs have personally stated many times that trying to unlock things (such as inland republics) would take far too much time. It is basically a hard-coded mess. So the question is, would it be time permitted and would it effect enough people to justify all the manpower it would apparently take to de-code republics. From the way the devs have talked about it in the modding sub-forum it sounds like they would have to rewrite a lot of code from the republic dlc.
 
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