You are displaying classic symptoms of Sychophantic Stockholm Syndrome I recommend getting that checked out:
Wow.. just, well. Wow. Of all the people you could possibly have directed this bizarre diatribe at, Mann42 is just about the worst possible case. One of the most cogent and balanced of our posters.
I'm afraid you fail factually from the first sentence, and the extent of the massive misdirection of your vitriol will be apparent to anyone who has read this forum over the last few months, at least beyond a cursory glance.
1st Sign) Absurd factually inccorrect emotional rant adressed to no in particular but some strawman, you even added in the 10 years in the game industry qualification no one asked for.
Emotional rant? Seriously, you're going there? Yours was balanced and rational?
You don't think it's relevant to a discussion on the practices of a games company, in terms of how they produce, sub-divide, and price their products, to note that someone is actually IN the games industry? Putting them aside from, say, some guy in his bedroom who hasn't ever had any dealings with the games industry but is nonetheless REALLY SURE he knows what's he talking about? There, that's a strawman for you because I won't suggest who such a person might be. But what's not a strawman is to note when a poster is definitely not such a person, and therefore can be expected to have a much higher-than-average chance of speaking from an experienced, and balanced perspective.
Here's a useful article on this principle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
2nd Sign) When proved wrong (so called “free cosmetic tool” actually costs $10,000) don’t gracefully admit it but come out with even more outrageous claims that its my own and other modders fault we cant afford $10,000.
I addressed you earlier:
Plus usually no-one ever need buy them anyway. The people qualified to use them likely already have a license provided by their job and just use that.
Is the OP really blaming Paradox for that fact that AutoDesk costs $10k and Paradox haven't provided their own 3D Modelling studio for creating unit packs? Hahahahaha.
I'd like to reiterate part of that. Hahahaha. Seriously though, I would like to offer you a second chance to maybe explain what you're saying here, because I do have to tell you it's coming off a little absurd.
You're honestly finding issue with the fact that Paradox does not provide a 3d modelling suite to create unit packs for the game?
You know they also don't bundle Cubase? Or a keyboard/synth? But how are we to create our own free muzacks?? What about flags - we need a graphics package for that. MS Paint is free, but really bad. So should Paradox develop their own Photoshop equivalent?
Perhaps you could point to a game publisher that does provide the 3d modelling software that you claim Paradox is lax for not providing?
Also perhaps you could do a little poll and find a few other forum users who would agree that they'd like Paradox to develop some 3d modelling software to bundle with their games so that a handful of modders can create new unit packs without buying (or using an existing license for) an industry standard tool? As opposed to say, working on their games.
Your obvious cognitive dissonance (irational arguing because you take criticism of the game as personal criticism) doesn’t do Paradox any favours as feedback is valuable even if its not always positive. Trying to insult, shout down criticism and accuse people of ignorance etc isnt going to help PI in the end or help them improve their games.
These are all good points. It'd just be a lot better if you applied them to a post, or poster, to which they even vaguely apply.
People can be accused of ignorance when they display it.
We're aware that feedback is valuable, which is why we provide so much of it. What was that about inapplicable strawmen?
Other symptoms include:
-If you don’t like it don’t buy it (Yeah PI would love that)
So you, the non-sychophant, is suggesting that everyone should buy it? Regardless of whether they like it? Or what's your point here?
"If you don't like it, don't buy it" is ultimately the only cogent point. Sure one can make threads explaining points of view, and in general they're useful. Certainly, if there were a hundred threads on pricing, that would at least be noticed by PI/PDS.
But ultimately what they will be looking at is the sales figures. If there were 100 threads about pricing, but sales were better than ever, those threads would lose rather a lot of significance. Not all, by any means, because Paradox are superb at listening to their community. But ultimately it's the sales numbers that matter, and everything else regarding pricing will be judged relative to that.
As it is there aren't 100 threads, there's about two, and they're almost invariably started/fuelled by new users or users with minimal input up to that point. That's to be expected to some extent, because naturally the longer term members are going to be more tolerant of pricing. But if you've read this forum at al (have you?) you'll note that even the longest, most loyal of Paradox users, has no problem whatsoever venting frustration and dislike of things that frustrate them and that they dislike. They're able to do that because Paradox - unlike most games companies I would say - lets them do that, with no censorship on the forums.
So the almost complete absence of such threads really does go back to "if you don't like it, don't buy it." That's your key way of expressing displeasure at the pricing.
And, thankfully, Paradox have given you some choice there. You can buy the features without the music and graphical extras. So you're not forced into buying a $20 DLC which might contain bits you don't like, but you can buy the $15 DLC and then make your very strong stand by refusing to pay the extra $5 for the extras.
Which is kind of what most people have been saying all along.
-You arent allowed to comment unless you have made your own (better) game
Not in this thread.
-You are entitled… therefore you arent entitled to comment
Not entirely sure what this means, but am certain it's not in this thread.
-First world problems (some one somewhere in the world is probably worse off so you are not allowed to have an opinon on anything).
Not in this thread.
-Thousands of posts in a short space of time popping up in any thread daring to posit that whatever PI game isnt the second coming. Either a one sentence put down or several paragraphs and a lot of words saying very little.
What was that you said you didn't like about ad hominem? Or indeed, bias? Also: not in this thread. This thread isn't anything to do with whether PI/PDS' game is good or not. It's about pricing. It's also a contentious thread, thus it gets lots of posts, as do all contentious threads. I'd be happy to point some others out to you, ones that are contentious and thus highly popular and have plenty of bad things to say about the game. Good things too, of course.
Referring back to what I said about picking the worst possible person to direct your bizarre remarks to: check out Mann42's past posts on EU4. A sycophant of PDS in general or of EU4 specifically he most certainly is not.
Unless of course you mean that he posts about what he likes and defends against statements he believes to be false. Are you saying that's bad? What is the counter-position to your supposed sycophant? Someone who hates everything or never posts about something they do like? Because that appears to be what you're wanting. Whereas you describe this mysterious "thousands of posts [defending Paradox]" I would describe "leaping on any comment that dares to say that maybe Paradox aren't the Devil and aren't screwing everyone over, and describing them as sycophants."
I can understand why maybe it's hard to grasp - if you do indeed see everything in an EA-focused world, then it must be quite surprising to find people who actually like a games company and might therefore point out when attacks against them are unfounded. You see, that's kind of the point; the fact that PDS is so completely unlike many, or indeed most, other games companies - well, at least the Big Names anyway - is rather why they get so much loyalty and praise.
Note that's praise. Not unconditional praise. Not sycophantism. At least not from the vast, vast majority. Because part of the reason for the praise is that Paradox do not censor, and do not discourage negativity. The very fact that this thread we're in even still exists, rather than being locked after an hour as it would be on most games forums, is proof of that. And it's because of this that even the most loyal of Paradox fans invariably have no problem pointing out what's wrong, what they dislike, what they're disappointed with. Just as they should. It's called discussion and debate. It's a good thing, I assure you!
-PI is a great company so I will give them money like they are a charity / PI is a business and its OK for them to use EA practices cause they need to make money (how the same people hold both these beliefs is beyond me)
Not in this thread, specifically the "like they are a charity", and "use EA practices." The latter is your bias - did you mention not liking bias? - since to even a blind otter it's clear that PI/PDS is about as far from EA as it's possible to get.
The former would be a sign of people wanting to support a small games company who, very much unlike EA, can't rely on getting 10s of millions in revenue by re-releasing the same game every year with an incremented number. Their games are by definition niche, and most of the fans want them to stay that way; or rather, they don't want them to lose the features that they love, which they feel would be inevitable if PI/PDS had to sell more copies to a wider audience.
They don't want PI/PDS to have to dumb down the games to suit a wider audience, which is a worry if they have to start reaching out to a larger audience in order to keep being profitable and hopefully expanding such that they can make more of the games we love.
Thus not worrying about spending a few extra bucks on DLC most certainly seems reasonable.
Especially given that, for many people on this forum, Paradox games represent many hundreds and even thousands of hours of enjoyment. Against that, their purchase price is one of the best bargains they're ever likely to find. When you have 1000 hours in a game, it really doesn't matter if you spent $50 or $100, and many people quite rightly feel that it's well worth spending a bit more if it increases the chance of more such games appearing and there being more people to work on them.
Note that these people aren't sending Paradox envelopes stuffed with cash. That would be the actions of these mysterious sycophants that you so like to describe. They are however buying cheap content without counting every penny or agonising over whether it's worth it. Just like any fan of a band will likely buy the new single, the new album, and the latest T Shirt, without doing a careful cost benefit analysis on it.
That's a different point to "they are a business and will charge the appropriate price point". The fact that both points exist makes neither less valid.
-OMG patches for free! …who charges for patches?
Not in this thread. What is in this thread is "The free patches continue for
years instead of months, and have
new features."
I can name you a very large number of games companies who don't provide patches for years, nor provide new features in patches - which, as you say, are free.
I apologise for the length of my reply; I didn't have time to make it short. I hope I've managed to address your points in a clear and balanced way. Looking forward to hearing back from you!
