How much of the Sahara could one realistically fill in with no-Holding provinces? I've been considering, for a long time, the possibility of Berber hordes that bridge the gap between Mali/the Kanem area and the North African coast.
Yes, that is the plan. Right now it is terribly uninteresting and flat - frankly despite I really like the medieval history of the region and islamic dynasties, I don't find playing as them any interesting now.This is an awesome idea actually, I remember reading that the reason why Arab states relied so heavily on slaves to govern was because slaves were outside the system of tribal loyalties. Pair up powerful Arab tribal mechanics with a better system for mamluks/ghilmans and you have a much more accurate and much more interesting Arab world.
Hopefully this wil be able to provide them a comperhensive source of ideas for some sensefull mechanicsI really like the concept and would consider buying this islamic dlc (again). But at this point, I dont believe that Pdox is capable of designing a working, challenging and fun decadence mechanic.
it depends. Despite the popular sentiment Sahara (at least its large parts) was populated. So there could be quite a few provinces for those Saharan Berbers. The question is how necessary they would be. Do you know the SWMH map in HIP mod? In that mod I have filled the inhabited parts of Sahara and before a massive merging there were some 35-40 provinces in the Sahara itself. Then West Africa could have as much as another 30 provinces and I am not counting Maghreb, which could have as much as 40 provinces. But that's maximalistic and perhaps a little excessive approach.
Now the number was dramatically reduced and still I think that Shara does not need to be entirely populated. In fact there were empires stretching across the desert only in the westernmost part (Adrar-Mauretania) and the eastern (Kanem-Kawar-Fezzan).
You can also check my WIP mod In my signature (the screenshot from the first post was taken from there). There I take minimalistic approach, with the main goal to make West Africa worth playing (in fact very little is necessary for that - 1 new corridor through Hausaland-Kanem and Fezzan with 11 new provinces, and 3 more provinces for West Africa itself).
If we are talking about populating the Sahara, I think that up to 10 proinces could cover the Sahara pretty decently (on the top of those 14 provinces added to West/Central Africa and Fezzan.
But I don't think that the game really needs to fill the Sahara.
tl;dr
So final conclusion: For interesting West Africa and interesting Berber nomadic gameplay all we need is those 14 provinces added in my mod + perhaps some 5-6 provinces on the border between the Sahara and Maghreb, that is 20 provinces, half of them nomadic.
Well then if this isn't going to happen for CK2, elvain has outlined a nice design concept to be included in CK3Yes in a patch this would be possible. But unlikely for CK2 I think... But we can still hope for CK3. Paradox ffixed the bad Shogunate mechanics from EU3 in EU4 too.
If it was another DLC featuring a bookmark, why not a 632 AD one? That way, you could have all the way for Islam to go, and people not interested in playing these characters would get a whole other world as well.Anyway this DLC could also include a new bookmark based in 960's/970's with the expansion of the Fatimids (typical state using combination of tribal and slave armies), the dawn of Qarmatians, the starting crisis of Iqta-based Iranian Buyids and slave-based Samanids, and the eve of Turkish expansion, with their slaves ascending to power inside Persian states.
Well then if this isn't going to happen for CK2, elvain has outlined a nice design concept to be included in CK3
So either way, not a bad idea to post it, and Paradox should really read this because they can't screw up decadence again in future iterations...
Edit:
If it was another DLC featuring a bookmark, why not a 632 AD one? That way, you could have all the way for Islam to go, and people not interested in playing these characters would get a whole other world as well.
Though that would arguably be a massive undertaking, and at least a $20 DLC...
Unfortunately I can't do much to help you... but you can still find it on steam workshop, under the same name.I can't actually check your mod on account of my Probation.
I don't think I would support (and even less suggest it) pushing the start date this far. I even think that 769 date is bit too early for a game like this.If it was another DLC featuring a bookmark, why not a 632 AD one? That way, you could have all the way for Islam to go, and people not interested in playing these characters would get a whole other world as well.
Though that would arguably be a massive undertaking, and at least a $20 DLC...
I believe its on the steam workshop as wellI can't actually check your mod on account of my Probation.
However since they already did a Muslim dlc and because this would be such a deep and complex system I can't really see them doing this.
I don't know. I can see them doing something to flesh out Muslims more. After all, they gave away Tribal government for free. And that was basically The Old Gods 2.0. Granted, I think giving away Tribals for free was a mistake (custom titles should've been the free feature), but whatever.Sadly such a DLC would never happen... because the DLC model didn't support DLCs which requiere other DLCs.
why should we have to pay to fix something we already paid for?
as said above, if you have bought Charlemagne, you basically did paid for fixing something that shold already be in, the same with Horse Lords, Way of Life, Sons of Abraham or conclave. You can take it as paying for something that should have been part of the game already, or you take it as new mechanics which expand the game experience.why should we have to pay to fix something we already paid for?
as said above, if you have bought Charlemagne, you basically did paid for fixing something that shold already be in, the same with Horse Lords, Way of Life, Sons of Abraham or conclave. You can take it as paying for something that should have been part of the game already, or you take it as new mechanics which expand the game experience.
As already shown, this DLC should also feature a new bookmark between 867 and 1066 as well as minor map expansion in Africa, and (possibly) map fix. Do you feel this as something you already paid for? You didn't, because it isn't in game.
But I understand that if you only read the title and the first sentence of the OP, you may have the feeling that this is about fixing decadence. No, it's not. The idea of this DLC is not to fix Sword of Islam, but to offer new mechanics to those part of game, which have been overlooked so far - that is the desert tribes and their specifics and the specifics of islamic government (employment of ghulams/mameluks and little different role of islamic clerics than in christianity).
There were and are suggestions for West Africa. You know, it isn't the jungle part of West Africa which is in game, but the Sahel and that's just fine.I wouldn't mind paying for a "Clans of the Sands" or "Voodoo Chiefs" DLCs to finally get proper Muslims and West Africans.
I don't really see how West Africa can work with the game, though. I usually defend map extensions, but West Africa generally doesn't hook up in a way that's realistic. It doesn't even fit in the EU4 timeline. I would hope that any expansion that helped flesh out West Africa would also at least attempt to represent the fact that Whites and jungles don't get along, so that you don't have Spaniards rampaging through the Sahel.
But, you also have the Chinese Question if you make the West Africa historically powerful/secure... in that it may end up blobbing all outside of its home territories. I think having Nomadic-province bridges pretty well solves that issue, in that there are diplomatic connections, but no real "invasion routes." Which is how it should historically be. Maybe an African king could end up transitioning into a horde, and you'd have a Black invasion of Sicily, settling down when they get there. THAT would be fascinating to make an AAR out of.