Paradox please consider it seriously...
I would love this as DLC
Griots?!Thanks for the support.
I'm currently considering to take a look at West African societies to be able to make some more detailed and reasonable suggestion. Anything else anybody would be interested in? Any part of what I have already outlined to be described in more detail?
I've realized that if they ever do this, they will most likely do it as the last hoorah.These are one example.
Frankly I plan to re-evaluate my research on West African empires of Wagadu and Mali and there were more interesting things.. and honestly in the literature I red, there wasn't much about griots so I have always considered them as sort of icon tied to West Africa about which nobody really knows anything.
I'd love to point out some specifics such as:
- West African syncretism - the co-existence of pagan and muslim communities (=> if sorted out, the game could get a system which would allow separate religious / cultural communities in the same province, this could be greatly beneficial also to simulate German colonization of Central Europe or the coexistence of various communities in the Middle East, existence of Jewish communities throughout medieval world etc.)
- the gold, salt and slave trade with its specifics, raids, negotiation with communities/merchants holding the monopoly of some kind of trade => inland republics, merchant societies or communities
- more African cults. There is varying info about various cults based in West Africa, but as far as I know many popular cults are quite anachronistic for our needs. But definitely West African paganism does deserve some love, since it honestly got nothing since ever.
These are one example.
Frankly I plan to re-evaluate my research on West African empires of Wagadu and Mali and there were more interesting things.. and honestly in the literature I red, there wasn't much about griots so I have always considered them as sort of icon tied to West Africa about which nobody really knows anything.
I'd love to point out some specifics such as:
- West African syncretism - the co-existence of pagan and muslim communities (=> if sorted out, the game could get a system which would allow separate religious / cultural communities in the same province, this could be greatly beneficial also to simulate German colonization of Central Europe or the coexistence of various communities in the Middle East, existence of Jewish communities throughout medieval world etc.)
- the gold, salt and slave trade with its specifics, raids, negotiation with communities/merchants holding the monopoly of some kind of trade => inland republics, merchant societies or communities
- more African cults. There is varying info about various cults based in West Africa, but as far as I know many popular cults are quite anachronistic for our needs. But definitely West African paganism does deserve some love, since it honestly got nothing since ever.
A minorities system would be wonderful. Groups of minorities which could cause a culture to possibly even change, and extinct religions to not be extinct.Jews were mentioned only as example.
The existence of minority communities or merchant communities or whoever they would be called would need to be developed and honestly I didn't put enough effort into that yet.
But in general the idea is to make the mechanic of these communities as abstract as possible so it could work for a wide range of communities such as the diaspora Jews in Europe and the Muslim world, the Berber and Arab merchants in West Africa, German communities/colonists in Eastern Central Europe, Soghdian merchants along the Silk road, West African Wangara merchants in gold-bearing regions like Bambuk or Bure. I believe there are many more such influential minorities throughout the CK2 world, so if anyone thinks I have forgotten one, don't hesitate to mention them here, especially if you have some more insight and could describe how they worked.
The idea is that the mechanic should abstract common workings of those communities such as:
- they usualy had separate settlements/quarters/ghettos outside the majority population settlements
- they had specific rights and duties, which could work as privileges, but at the same time were limiting their activities to certain (often quite large) degree
- they kept long-distance contacts with other members of their own community which enabled them to build networks very usefull for long-distance trade, such as lending money
- as outsiders they were often the ones who spreaded and spearhaded new interesting ideas and technologies, but in the times of instability, they were usually the first targets of massacres/pogroms from social majority
This is the common ground. Then I would like to have some localisations for each of those cultures. For instance some of the features may be limited only to certain communities, or could have tiny differences inside, such as different laws to apply/acquire. Then there could of course be localised events or event chains specific to each of the community depending 1) on the type of the community and 2) on the region where it is locates (a Jewish community in Andalusia should be facing slightly different challenges than Jewish community in Rheinland. At the same time an Arab merchant would have little different demands and also treatment in West Africa than Berber or Jewish merchant at the same place)
As I see it (based on my own general knowledge) the general ideas and features would most probably be based on the existence of Jewish, Arab/Berber and German expatriate communities and their interactions with local populations.
But frankly, I don't consider myself an expert about any of these, so if you think there is something about these communities, or any other expatriate community which would deserve to be mentioned, just tell me about it. If you could even forward me to some good sources, it would be even better!
I agree.I really like the idea of minority communities but I also tend to be of the mind that in some ways, provinces flip to different culture groups too easily. I notice this a lot in Africa, where Egyptians and Bedouins will usually wipe out the entire Ethiopian, Nubian and Somali cultures through fast conversion.
Maybe a simple way to fix that would be that any time a non-nomadic province flips culture, it gets an attribute with an extremely long decay time. For ex, say you're a Turk and you take Armenia, and eventually you culture-flip one of the counties to Turkish. That county automatically gets a flag called Armenian Minority, which slightly raises revolt risk and may also cause randomly-generated courtiers or barony-level rulers from that area to pop up as Armenians. Same for religion. The result is that if you hit, say, Invite Noble to Court ten times, maybe six of the 10 are Turkish Muslims, but three out of ten are Armenian Miaphysites and the tenth is an Armenian Muslim. The flag could stick on the county for a hundred years or more, with a slim chance of being removed every year after the first 100 years.
The attribute would vanish if the province was conquered back by Armenians, who'd get a Turkish Minority.
As I said above, I wouldn't want this to represent minorities as we understand them, but rather communities which have different legal, religious and other status and build their own separate settlements.
Exactly, these communities could work anywhere and give benefits to any part of CK2 worldCommunities are great idea! We can also use them for muslim and armenian trade quarters in Tibet.
I agree.
I thought that introducing this thing would have to mean some necessary reork of cultural conversions - since this would make some easier, they will have to be tweaked in general