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Minuteman1000

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I had a Great idea for an alternative history DLC based on the Investiture Controversy in the Holy Roman Empire and in other Catholic kingdoms. In the mid 1100's where the Holy Roman Emperor called on his Bishops to excommunicate the Pope then the Pope excommunicated the Holy Roman Emperor which would introduce the proposed hypothetical scenario of a war for control of the Catholic Church which will split into two factions Papal Supporters, and Papal Opposition. The goal of the supporters is to defend the current papal administration while the opposition will seek to overthrow and install a more friendly pope. This DLC would include a hypothetical starting point which the Holy Roman Emperor would challenge the Popes legitimacy and seek to install a bishop loyal to him and friendly to kings,counties,and other characters who supported the Emperor but if the Emperor loses this war most of his supporters would be punished,killed, or just disappears but if they win the installed pope may grant them special privileges and let them keep Territories that they have seized from the war. The war would not end when someone takes Rome only when someone defeats or negotiates a ceasefire will it be over but will not end in a draw because there can only be one Pope. Characters can turn on or support Pope for a variety of reasons such as it has to be done to save the Church or just for some greedy ambition. Other realms would have an available decision to make on who to side with or tell the higher ups who to side with, a kingdom may try to stay neutral but factions within your realm begin to form demanding that you help or oppose the Pope. The player can do nothing but his/her standing with the subordinates will deteriorate if the player does nothing leading to plots against the player.


This would also be available from other start dates but only if the right conditions are met as a plot:

The Pope must be unpopular enough to be challenged.

The Challenger must have enough supporters and internal political stability to initiate the plot, and perhaps low piety.

Your Bishops must be on your side and denounce the incumbent Pope.

Possibly have an anti-pope ready to seize the role as head of the church.

The pope must not have the "Cluniac Reforms" active, other popes may revoke the reform trying to centralize power of the church.


Does this all sound like an interesting idea?


URLs:
Investiture Controversy
Cluniac Reforms
 
Last edited:

Kanin_Usagi

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Just skimming over this, it sounds like a great idea. I'm always up for new events and new conflicts between large amounts of nations. You could even have Kingdoms and Dukedoms splitting up with this. Imagine half the dukes of your realm supporting the Roman Pope, and half against him. Then imagine if even those dukes would have counts/barons/lord mayors/Archbishops supporting different sides.

But, if this would be that large of a war, it would have to be very careful that the Muslims can't take huge advantage with this.
 

Rasec

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I developed dyslexia trying to read that first paragraph, but sounds like a good idea. I have to say though that DLC no longer sounds fun to me unless it includes an unbeatable horde that doesn't need to eat. I'm thinking a 100k stack of angels that randomly appear on the map when your piety drops below a certain point would really crank up the fun factor of this idea at least ten fold.
 

Teep

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This does seem to be in the game currently, in the way the some of the Anti-Pope mechanics work and the low Papal/religious Authority effects; however, it would be nice if there were more variety in the options available to a Catholic player, especially the Kings and Emperor as to how they can deal with the Papacy. On a related note, the most Historical names I can think of for Pro/Anti-Papal factions would be the Guelphs and Ghibilenes.
 

Minuteman1000

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This does seem to be in the game currently, in the way the some of the Anti-Pope mechanics work and the low Papal/religious Authority effects; however, it would be nice if there were more variety in the options available to a Catholic player, especially the Kings and Emperor as to how they can deal with the Papacy. On a related note, the most Historical names I can think of for Pro/Anti-Papal factions would be the Guelphs and Ghibilenes.

The core philosophy behind this idea is to expand the functions of the catholic faith and the effects of the papacy, and if a leader is usually unpopular there is a chance that a vassal would challenge the papal administration. I got part of this idea from the legacy of rome system of expanding the system for leadership and amount of centralization/decentralization of the Catholic faith. Also using bishops who are loyal to you and not the Papal Administration.
 

vmarra

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Guelphs and Ghibilenes.
Is what I was thinking too. I think this couldn't honestly just be an event chain.

*HRE switches to free investiture
*Pope gets mad
*HRE names anit-pope bishops
*Excom vs. Exom
*HRE supports anti-pope in war for papacy

That is pretty much or less what happened in real life too, though there was this whole mess with the Sicilian Kingdom being total bad asses.
 

Gunnarr

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This seems like half of it is in-game already (antipopes) while the other half is just a really specific scenario which will be fun to play only once.

that reminds me of a certain dlc.. with aztecs...
 

imperium3

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Is what I was thinking too. I think this couldn't honestly just be an event chain.

*HRE switches to free investiture
*Pope gets mad
*HRE names anit-pope bishops
*Excom vs. Exom
*HRE supports anti-pope in war for papacy

That is pretty much or less what happened in real life too, though there was this whole mess with the Sicilian Kingdom being total bad asses.

But IIRC the HRE wasn't supporting an anti-pope against the main one, he was trying to assert his supremacy above any and all popes. Which the game doesn't really represent.

Maybe have a decision/casus belli where a Catholic Emperor can attempt to enforce his superiority over the pope, with successful control of the papacy making it similar to an Orthodox Patriarch where the emperor can order excommunications etc. But also losing piety, risking the creation of an antipope, and eroding the moral authority of the Papacy. Other Catholics would be able to intervene to help defend the Pope to try and gain favour with him + piety.