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See, this is what I dislike about this sort of DLC. HOI3 has been in development by what, about 6-8 people for ~18 months or so? The 39.99$ includes mountains of new art, tons of included sprites, music, AI, zillions of new provinces, all new events, tons of new systems, new tech system, new design, all the costs of marketing and supporting Pardoxes other staff etc.
Then we're supposed to believe that one 3D artist cranking out some low-poly models and skins for a month or two is worth 10$, a quarter the cost of the entire game?!
I don't know how much extra cost Paradox incurrs by having a (presumably salaried) artist turn out some extra sprites, but I have a hard time believing it would add that much to the cost of production. More like raising the price from 39.99$ to 41$, not 50$.
Like I said, I don't know the true cost, but I think that is the impression these sorts of micropacks give a lot of consumers. That we're being charged for content at a vastly, vastly higher rate then the content in the base game. It's like how EA charging 20$ for a handful of tables and chairs for the Sims 3.
Well, looks like you guys (Paradox) know what you want to do... I'll say this though (and it sounds like you've heeded it) - the absolute imperative with DLCs is that they not affect modding. Expansions and patches are huge burdens on modders, because they force them to put a lot of work in just to get their mod working again. However, Expansions and patches are also huge boons to modders, because they allow new and awesome features.
However, if compatability is getting screwed without a corresponding feature boost to make up for it, it's simply a big "f you" to modders.
I'll assume that the sprite and music packs would in no way affect compatability.
However, if compatability is getting screwed without a corresponding feature boost to make up for it, it's simply a big "f you" to modders.
I'll assume that the sprite and music packs would in no way affect compatability.
Honestly, yes, and that is even though I play with counters.
A game is a piece of art. I really appreciate how much you listen to the community, but in the end it is your name on the box and you decide what the game is.
I would like that when the game goes gold, it contains just everything you can think of, and I will pay the price you consider fair (if then later new ideas and constructive critism from the communiy occurs and you make an expansion pack, I have no probelm with that. On the contrary
).It is like buying a picture. You don't go and ask the artist to remove the boat and draw some extra trees for some extra money. Even if you would like the picture a little bit better then.
Just my opinion
yeah.....good point. BTW, u was not alone with Empire TW. I bought it at release day for 50 bucks too....and i didnt played it more then a couple of hours. KI sucks....Game freezes every now and then..and even with newest drivers if shows graphic probs. Shit...and i loved Rome and MTW2.
I really hope HoI3 will be the game i am waiting for. I have big hopes on all of u guys. Paradox fan since 2000 now.
About the spritepacks for extra money.
If there r enough sprites in main HoI3..i dont think the idea of extra content is such a bad idea at all. So everybody can decide himself..if he thinks its worth 2$ or not. And u will find out...if it sells good or not. This poll here is just a word from fans....not really what they would do when the relase day has come. But it will be clear visible for Pdox...if the concept works or not.
And as u asked...i like it better to buy the game for 40 and pay extra for content..then to pay 49 for things i wouldnt need maybe.
BTW..i was sprite fan in all games before. Hated counters. Now..well...seems your counters r much better as ever before. Fully got my board game feeling back....as i saw all the fotos. Seems i will play with counters this time. So your idea of selling sprites came to late...lol...u would have earned more in the games before...as counters looked ugly.
Hey what about selling counters?
I would pay 2$ if i get the names of the generals at top...to be better readable. As i hate to get a stiff neck fast. The symbols on top can be also on left side.
Oh and this idea was fully free. I dont want the copyright for it.
The only thing I would pay for if it includes a radical change in some area, for example, PI realises that air warfare is totally flawed and they launch a DLC with a completely new combat model with some non-relevant stuff.
For everything else the answer is no, some sprites or more music aren't whorty enough.
For everything else the answer is no, some sprites or more music aren't whorty enough.
Uhmm.. They aren't seeling it at that much a price.. It's 2$ a piece... Nothing huge, besides, it's optional, if you don't want it. Well last time i checked, you won't have Paradox Assasins sent after you.
If air warfare was to be flawed, i´d expect PI to fix it for free. You are not really trying to tell us, that the only DLC you´d pay for were patches, right?
So long as DLC is entirely distinct to game development, I think it is fine for Paradox to do it ad infinitum. There are, however, a large range of issues regarding DLC when intwined with game development.
Thus, from a business point of view if PI can run an ancillary operation, hire some folks (or keep folks longer than they would have been needed) to do purely aesthetic content, that is fine. If this takes on a strategic role at the company, I think it would diminish the quality of the franchise considerably. This is important to get out there, because even with superficial DLC, the community could get the impression that superficial sales for $1 are more important than patching -- so PI strategy would be essential to always and everywhere spell out.
- Primary game may be crippled or inferior without DLC, creating negative experience for customers
- Could increases game divergence: with X different "versions" of the game, each potentially with their own patches. Yikes!
- Could necessitate divides within the fan community: different groups have different game versions.
- An exercise in diminishing returns: the customer base for DLC increasingly reduces (which is a similar problem for expansions)
- Over commoditization dilutes the brand and quality of the product: each product becomes less useful/valuable in itself.
Thus, from a business point of view if PI can run an ancillary operation, hire some folks (or keep folks longer than they would have been needed) to do purely aesthetic content, that is fine. If this takes on a strategic role at the company, I think it would diminish the quality of the franchise considerably. This is important to get out there, because even with superficial DLC, the community could get the impression that superficial sales for $1 are more important than patching -- so PI strategy would be essential to always and everywhere spell out.
Yes that would be nice.
39.99€ on Gamersgate = ca 57$
Lower price and more content would make us happy indeed
5 spritepacks at 2$ a peice is 10$.
I wouldn't get them anyway, as I only play with counters. No one said anything about Paradox Assassins or being forced to buy anything. They asked our opinion of this sort of DLC, and from the poll it looks like most people aren't very keen on it.
My opinion on this matter is as follows:
Small DLC can't change gameplay because multiplayer would be very difficult to estabilish between people with different sets of DLCs. Since it's not affecting gameplay, it's really not that attractive for the customer, except if those features modified/added by the DLC are very important for that person. For me for example sprite packs have 0 value, because I play only with counters. Music is other matter, I like Soviet-style music.
As someone said, DLC offered before or on release date make bad impression on the customers, that the "vanilla" game is lacking something from the start, for which you have to pay extra. I think you would get much better response releasing those packs a week or month after the game release, while the game is still hot and calling them mini-expansions etc.
Personally, I'm eager to get the real expansions because I remember what NA and IN did for EU3 - raised the game from "just good" to "totally awesome" - and I hope those real expansions for HOI3 will improve it in the same way. In case of DLC I can only say that it's nothing wrong but it's better released later than main game, and for preorder just stick with special forum badge or lower price.
Small DLC can't change gameplay because multiplayer would be very difficult to estabilish between people with different sets of DLCs. Since it's not affecting gameplay, it's really not that attractive for the customer, except if those features modified/added by the DLC are very important for that person. For me for example sprite packs have 0 value, because I play only with counters. Music is other matter, I like Soviet-style music.
As someone said, DLC offered before or on release date make bad impression on the customers, that the "vanilla" game is lacking something from the start, for which you have to pay extra. I think you would get much better response releasing those packs a week or month after the game release, while the game is still hot and calling them mini-expansions etc.
Personally, I'm eager to get the real expansions because I remember what NA and IN did for EU3 - raised the game from "just good" to "totally awesome" - and I hope those real expansions for HOI3 will improve it in the same way. In case of DLC I can only say that it's nothing wrong but it's better released later than main game, and for preorder just stick with special forum badge or lower price.
Modders are going to kick out art just as high-quality as any paid artist will, just look at the unit art in Red Star over Blue Seas (don't remember his mod pack name), which is amazing.
i don't even know what DLC is!
I just want a game that's finished and complete (with good sprites and so on)
Is it just extra?
Is it free?
Is it because the game isn't complete yet?
I just want a game that's finished and complete (with good sprites and so on)
Is it just extra?
Is it free?
Is it because the game isn't complete yet?
This has been the case with HOI2 for me. I never play vanilla. Not because vanilla isn't good, but because it can be better. So I always play with mods, with sprite packs, with extra music.
I guess Paradox are asking - why can't we get a piece of that action? And so they should.
I also think getting involved with DLC content will be a good exercise for Paradox. Games are evolving, in every way - from the experience they provide to the way they are distributed. Paradox should be trying it out, learning their own valuable lessons - not just for HOI3 but for all their IP's.
DLC stands for Downloadable Content. But it means "Massively Overcharging people for Horse Armor and Unit Skins."
Hilarious ... DLC can be good though. Just think "The lost and the damned" or "Operation Anchorage"
Putting up paid for downloaded content so close to the release date is not a good idea and may incur some minor negative press. A free download for those who register the game is a good idea, barring that just push it all back to the all-inclusive expansion next year.
i went with expansions. Personally i dont like the idea of DLC because its normally something that will "restrict" the game like E:TW i really wanted to do some not so nice things to the people that made the deceision to make units DLC.
But
if its about music and sprites or other stuff that does not change the game play but only the game experience i dont see why not. I would seriously think about getting sprite packs atleast for the axis nations or some soviet and german style music packs
...
btw what about the possiblity of people who get the DLC by mistake or intended include the DLC in mods ?
But
if its about music and sprites or other stuff that does not change the game play but only the game experience i dont see why not. I would seriously think about getting sprite packs atleast for the axis nations or some soviet and german style music packs
...
btw what about the possiblity of people who get the DLC by mistake or intended include the DLC in mods ?
So there will be a "HoI3 Gold"?
What i would love is a HoI gold where you buy the game and get present sprites and all future ones (if you make them) and bonus things (we have another threat on this) like a poster (maybe with dev. autographs?), an extra manual with things like ekstra strategies, a world map and thoes action figures of Johan seem quite popular
. All the stuff for gold might not be ready for the release, but what i would like is that we can fx buy the gold on Steam and preload it on the 6th, so it's ready for the release second on the 7th. Then the DLC's will be done automaticly and when they are all fully done you would receive the box with a cd that also contains everything and all the extra stuff.Yes that's both a box with CD and a Steam download in one.
The maybe after an initial couple of weeks of sprites (absolute max. a month), then start work on a real update = an expansion, like maybe a version where the games starts earlier and ends later.
The clearly most important thing is the expansion, but the gold edition also sound very good, but i don't want to have to download and/or buy a million things. So if you make an expansion, then ad the price of this to the gold edition, so when it comes out it will just be updated automaticly over Steam.
To be honest, i'm one of thoes people who are going to buy HoI if it cost a hundred euros, so i would just like to get a super gold edition over Steam that will have significant expansions and upgrades that are autodownloaded over maybe 6 months or a year. Also in the gold you should get a modplace, where people who want to share their modding work for free should be able to do it almost ingame.
So in short give my everything!
And make it autodownloable over Steam, and if you buy the gold on Steam, let's be able to get the disc and everything else later on, either as part of the purchase or as a seperate extra trade...The most important thing for me really is just i can buy the game on Steam and still get a paper manual without having to pay more for the game.
Conclusion: I voted expansion..
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