• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

What is your opinion?

  • I like any type of DLC

    Votes: 386 25,2%
  • I just want expansions, like In Nomine and Revolutions.

    Votes: 1.038 67,8%
  • I don't want any type of download content

    Votes: 106 6,9%

  • Total voters
    1.530
Status
Not open for further replies.

Lordban

Field Marshal
90 Badges
Jan 3, 2006
3.196
159
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Empire of Sin - Premium Edition
You're like a broken record. I can repeat myself again: DLCs is a stupid idea only meant to milk the fans out of more money. I don't want them, be it changing gameplay to adding colours on a country shield. I'm good, thanks.


So I will just have to buy two expansions (Like EU3) and a bunch of DLCs in order to get a fully enjoyable game? This development to what mostly seems like Paradox only want to milk their fan base for money is dissapointing. When I go out there and I pay full price, right after release, for a game like EU3 I expect it to be close to complete. And if it's not complete I expect the company behind it to release patches in order to make it so, especially when you have such a dedicated fan base such as Paradox Interactive.


Don't tell me nobody experienced EU3 as a complete game before NA and IN came out...! Both expansions, IN in particular, brought quite a lot of changes to EU3 and made it a much better game, but it remains a very good one on its own :)

Not to mention, when did the idea about decisions/missions come up? I'd have a hard time believing the guys at Paradox went "hey, they're great ideas, but let's wait for a couple of years before we implement them, it'll make great money!" Some other companies, might have been. PI delaying the use of good ideas for a couple of years? Not really their type.


As for HoI3, a lot has been reworked, but apart from post-1948 play, so far, it doesn't look like we're losing features introduced in DD or Arma - in fact a number seem to have been reworked and integrated better into HoI3 than they were when they were added by an expansion.


This forum REALLY reads like Bethesda's Oblivion General three years ago :p
 

unmerged(42324)

Second Lieutenant
Mar 30, 2005
145
0
I have to say im a bit dissapointed with Paradox over this DLC sprite pack. You have to pre order to get it for free. I mean i will buy the game no doubt about that, but why do theese things to get every last buck out of your customers.

It was the same with empire total war, and i ended up not bying it because CA did this silly thing with having you pay more to get "the whole" game. So paradox im dissapointed you fall for theese marketing strategies, but still you shall have lots of credit for not having DRM:)
 

Alexander Seil

Philosopher of the Future
57 Badges
Aug 10, 2001
8.512
1.694
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
Hmm, did anyone ever explain to me how this scheme is any different from a Collector's Edition kind of exclusive deal that there was so much gnashing of teeth about? Oh, wait, it's not any different...
 

unmerged(42324)

Second Lieutenant
Mar 30, 2005
145
0
Hmm, did anyone ever explain to me how this scheme is any different from a Collector's Edition kind of exclusive deal that there was so much gnashing of teeth about? Oh, wait, it's not any different...

ive wined about CE too:) guess im just cheap

EDIT: and yes i have bought the CE version of EU3, but the only reason was that i didnt find any other version of it in the whole of Trondheim. Thats one of the reasons i dont like CE's
 

unmerged(144548)

Sergeant
1 Badges
Jun 22, 2009
65
0
  • Hearts of Iron III
Poor Internet Connection

A large number of us have lousy internet connection because we live in rural areas. When a game has only downloads for up grades or uses STEAM etc. it puts it out of the reach of many of us. Patches we can handle, complete down loads we can't. I can't use GamersGate much to my displeasure. :wacko:
 

unmerged(17228)

Herr Feldmarschall
May 24, 2003
1.032
0
Visit site
If the DLCs are just for things like extra sprites, purely cosmetic changes, then why not?

But if it gets to the point where it is "Pay $5 to unlock better AI!" or "$5 for new research technology post-1945!"
 

FelisSilvestris

Major
121 Badges
Apr 9, 2006
588
64
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
new scenarios do seem a lot like new content to me.
 

Lordban

Field Marshal
90 Badges
Jan 3, 2006
3.196
159
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Empire of Sin - Premium Edition
new scenarios do seem a lot like new content to me.

If they can already be run with the existing engine and without altering data files, they don't alter the checksum :)
 

Poh

Seasoned Tile Wizard
81 Badges
Aug 6, 2006
2.000
680
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Rome Gold
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Ancient Space
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Legio
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
I have said this too many times already, but Johan stated that he doesn't want to do checksum changing DLC, so something like that is out.

it doesnt seem like people want to listen or even read any of the previous post :(
 

jonti-h

Evil overlord
7 Badges
Jun 21, 2006
2.358
1
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • 500k Club
it doesnt seem like people want to listen or even read any of the previous post :(

Perhaps it is not that people don't want to listen, perhaps it is that they disagree with Johan's decision. He is after all, not infalliable.
 

unmerged(42324)

Second Lieutenant
Mar 30, 2005
145
0
Perhaps it is not that people don't want to listen, perhaps it is that they disagree with Johan's decision. He is after all, not infalliable.

I have to say i disagree with johan on this one:rolleyes: I get the "milking the cow for what its worth" feeling with DLC. Many mods give you just the same. Just think of Bebros great sprites, they didnt cost a dime. No give me proper addons wich are worth paying for.

Just my two cents:)
 

Poh

Seasoned Tile Wizard
81 Badges
Aug 6, 2006
2.000
680
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Rome Gold
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Ancient Space
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Legio
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
Perhaps it is not that people don't want to listen, perhaps it is that they disagree with Johan's decision. He is after all, not infalliable.

ofc he is :p ... theres not really anything to disagree on with the checksum but as Lordban said the thread may be too long now ... Johan should edit the first post and add "We wont change the checksum in anything other than patches and expansions" :D
 

jonti-h

Evil overlord
7 Badges
Jun 21, 2006
2.358
1
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • 500k Club
theres not really anything to disagree on with the checksum

Well, to be honest I am not sure about that. The objection that I have seen against changing the checksum is that it would make mods or MP difficult, but all mods to HOI2 change the checksum. All people do is keep seperate installs for each mod - I have about 5 different installs of HOI floating about. If the DLC was sort of a paid mod then surely people would just keep one install for vanilla and seperate ones for different DLC "mods". With something like the mod launcher that EU3 ships with, it need not even be that complex.

I am not in favour of DLCs, but I would rather they added actual content to the game, rather than being candyfloss.
 

Lordban

Field Marshal
90 Badges
Jan 3, 2006
3.196
159
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Empire of Sin - Premium Edition
Well, to be honest I am not sure about that. The objection that I have seen against changing the checksum is that it would make mods or MP difficult, but all mods to HOI2 change the checksum. All people do is keep seperate installs for each mod - I have about 5 different installs of HOI floating about. If the DLC was sort of a paid mod then surely people would just keep one install for vanilla and seperate ones for different DLC "mods". With something like the mod launcher that EU3 ships with, it need not even be that complex.

I am not in favour of DLCs, but I would rather they added actual content to the game, rather than being candyfloss.

Mods change a lot of data files included in the checksum, which can incidentally get overwritten by patches on occasion if you don't use a mod manager.

With DLC adding new features the hassle can go one step further: let's imagine, for an example, one piece of DLC includes an .exe modification to allow the smooth run of battlescenarios where you play a general's career, to teach the game to give you orders and stick to them.

Next comes a patch which adresses some bugs, also fixed in the .exe. After this DLC is released, either the patch has to search for strings to modify at different adresses in the .exe file depending on the presence or absence of that piece of DLC, or it includes two versions of the .exe file and checks for what DLC you have installed to pick between them. Data files are easier, you "just" have to check for DLCs and install the relevant file.


Now let's throw a second .exe or data-modifying DLC into the mix. Your patcher has to check whether you have DLC 1 OR DLC 2 OR DLC 1&2 OR no DLCs at all before it changes the .exe or relevant data files, and include instructions/files for the four possibilities. A third DLC brings this up to 9 possibilities, and you can go on by squaring the number of DLCs after that.

Each and every time you have to include more and more complex checks (especially in case of .exe modifications), and more and more different files. It becomes patching hell.


It's no different for modders. How do we guess whether user X has DLC 1, 2& 9 which modify this data file we replace in the mod, or only DLC 2 which is really required to run the mod? Must we write 10 or more different versions of the same mod for different DLC combos?

And no, you can't make life this hellish for modders. They make a critical part of PI's customer base.


As an aside, none of the contents added by Bethesda's DLCs for Oblivion which changed important game mechanics or added new functionalities, they only minor additions like maps, textures, meshes and scripts which could have been created by modders as well (indeed, modders have far exceeded what Beth did with DLC). And Bethesda relied as much on its modding community for Oblivion as PI does for its game - modding is what made Oblivion's predecessor Morrowind such a successful SP RPG, and not hampering modders was as critical for Beth' as it is for PI.
 

unmerged(63715)

I am the Law
Dec 20, 2006
1.177
1
I voted "Just expansions" not because I don't like DLC but because I don't like any type of DLC.

I bought Armageddon when it came out and will buy DLC if it makes sense for me personally. E.g. the sprite pack is not interesting to me, since I prefer counters. On the other hand I don't rule out buying some sort of graphics-pack (High-Def or who knows). As long as I don't need to buy a DLC to make the game playable, I'm fine (yes, it is a thin line between making a game playable and making it better playable).

Furthermore I would expect DLC to be standalone. Making a DLC a prerequisite for another would be a no-go.

On the other hand I do prefer to buy larger expansion packs with a host of new and usually well integrated festures (also in relation to the integration between the features themselves). Also such pack usually feature much more signifficant changes which sometimes thoroughly change the gaming experience.
 

Jonas

Captain
57 Badges
Jun 11, 2001
429
161
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
I would think that DLC changing gameplay would be preferrable to DLC adding tank porn and the Red Army Choir to the game, but to be honest, I want neither.

Hmm. I want both! It seems a great deal of players are completely indifferent to sprites and attribute zero value to them. I am sure the same holds true about music. In that perspective it is not such a crazy idea to charge those of us who want them and are willing to pay for them separately. A pain, for sure, but perhaps more just.

If Paradox had used a poll to see if the fans wanted to pay someone to develop these sprites or some suitable music, it seems they would have received a negative response. The consequence would be poor and few sprites even for those who would want to pay for more and better.
 

Wulf145

General
25 Badges
May 7, 2004
1.780
207
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
I have said this too many times already, but Johan stated that he doesn't want to do checksum changing DLC, so something like that is out.

I wouldn't get too annoyed, this thread has reached the stage that almost everything has been said already and IMHO most pages are just repatitions helping the posters to let off some steam.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.