Divisions need more than one sad, lonely guy

[KiwiNoob]

When I look at the map at the moment all I see is one lonely guy with no friends firing a gun at another lonely man with no friends in another province. It's sad on so many levels.

These guys need friends. Instead of having one guy and if he's lucky, one tank you need 20-30* smaller guys and a half dozen tanks. If you had a large number of smaller models you could get really frisky with what they're doing as well. More shooting, more interesting animations, explosions.

Would be really cool if the attackers guys were all advancing slowly into the defenders province with some covering while the others edge forwards. Little tanks getting knocked out by little AT guns. Maybe a few grenades in their just for some explosions. Have a little war instead of a single giant star jumping man.

Take the above and then spread it out over the whole eastern front and I'm going to lose a lot of games just because I'm busy watching the carnage.

Same with planes. Make them a bit smaller and throw a couple more in there. I cant tell from any of the screenshots or videos who's planes are who's so I don't really care which ones are getting shot down - only that they are getting shot down, which is cool.

Many smaller hearts of iron > One giant heart of loneliness




*EDIT: Ok - that was over the top. Consensus seems to be that 4-5 guys, maybe 1-2 tanks is more appropriate.

 

[Salatmander]

I get your point, but i think in a game, that scales so much, it would be more of a disadvantage to the overall look of the game. If you think about many divisions, that stand close to each other you do now have a handfull soldiers/tanks that are there, easy to seperate.
But when each division consists of lots of small people and assets, it begins to becomes just a big mass of mud.

You can t really see the models themself anymore. There are only explosions and lots of fire there.
Does surely look more like a "war" but i don t think it would look "better".

In my eyes about 3 people/tanks are the maximum you can go to still obtain the detail it has now.

(But i like your way of writing :3)

 

[LordOfWar16]

The idea in general isnt bad. The problem with it is, is that if you have alot of soilders at the front it simply gets too overcrowded. If you look at some screenshots, or the video about the map on Paradox Extra, you will see that the map is already pretty busy, especially with alot of divisions around.

We need to keep in mind that this is an grand strategy game and not an realtime strategy game. The game already looks beautiful, especially for an grand strategy game.

 

[blue_yonder]

I have no problem with sad horses and lonely soldiers, and in general I like that it won't be a lifeless world like 3, an excel spreadsheet with a map on top. I did wince a bit last Wednesday though, at the two chaps blazing away at each other in Spain; I'd rather the attacker was doing the pow'ing and blazing, while the defender was lying prone with his chin on a sandbag maybe, taking pot-shots back with a bolt-action rifle. It would quieten it down a bit, and also show at a glance who is attacking whom.

 

[KiwiNoob]

The models would be below the counters and it's the counters that give us the useful information anyway and we don't need to be able to separate the soldiers only the counters which could stand to be a little bit bigger anyway.

Even 3-5 people would be a giant improvement. At the moment it's just desolate. Sure the models are nice but they don't achieve anything as they are isolated and don't actually do very much.

 

[Anton Rex]

I remember posting similar threads both on hoi4 and eu4 forums.

My general idea is that every divison is represented by one model,
and as the divisions in one province increase they shrink in size.

However I do believe there should be a limit for each province say 10 models should be enough.

Let us hope the almighty Podcat hear our praires

 

[fabius]

I remember posting similar threads both on hoi4 and eu4 forums.

My general idea is that every divison is represented by one model,
and as the divisions in one province increase they shrink in size.

However I do believe there should be a limit for each province say 10 models should be enough.

Let us hope the almighty Podcat hear our praires

I've posted on this too. It would help my immersion if there were three guys with a tank. Something, anything to give a hint there's a group there.

Hadn't considered it for EU, but yeah would work there too.

The could run with this. Dug in troops could look dug in- foxholes. Urban, behind a low broke wall.


Another, fairly cheap multiplier would be if they mad the battle sounds context sensitive. Occasional tank shots when present, and MG 34 rips etc.

 

[Giovanni1234]

It would be much better than the current navy petrol like the one in the last video, where the ships hit each other.. and we haven't seen the planes yet.. :|

 

[Lifthrasil]

I wholeheartedly agree on your suggestions, but maybe not 20 men, but just 3-5 for a division. Tanks can stay 1-2 tanks per division.

I'm not sure if the models could also reflect damage taken (100% strength = 5 men present; 40% strength = 2 men present, 3 are dead)
CIV does this, but CIV also has WAYYYY less units and you can't stack them (unlike in HOI4).

I disagree on your suggestions regarding planes. I like how it looks now. More planes would just be confusing.

 

[Will Steel]

It would be HoI3 all over again. My experience with that game has been that smaller armies are manageable, but Germany/Soviet frontiers are so full of units after units after units, that they are completely unmanageable. They certainly don't feel lonely but so crowded that it makes my head spin unless I turn on the AI and let it do the fighting and management.

 

[SturmerFIN]

Group of people fighting or tanks would become too small animation.
But definetly more than 1 soldier doing something.
Maybe 2-3 soldiers.
If anyone remember Panzer Generals...

 

[blue_yonder]

Another, fairly cheap multiplier would be if they made the battle sounds context sensitive. Occasional tank shots when present, and MG 34 rips etc.

Like this ear-candy idea a lot - if there are katyushas involved, let's hear them..

 

[fabius]

Group of people fighting or tanks would become too small animation.
But definetly more than 1 soldier doing something.
Maybe 2-3 soldiers.
If anyone remember Panzer Generals...

Yes, maybe 3 = full strength; 1 soldier shows average strength down less that 33% ???

Like this ear-candy idea a lot - if there are katyushas involved, let's hear them..

Hell yes!! And Nebelwerfers !!

 

[Anton Rex]

It would be highly appreciated if a Dev could give us an answer concerning the possibility of more unit models in one province/ divisions.

Is it at the very least possible to mod and if so how?

 

[Pugmak]

If someone does mod the unit to have more than one guy, here's how it should be shown, historical type way.

1 infantryman, 3 supply guys, 4 clerks, 1 laundry washer guy, 1 guy wandering around not really doing anything and 2 mechanics. Then we could finally have "tooth to tail" represented.

 

[Axe99]

I'm pretty sure this has been asked and answered by the devs before. I can't remember the exact reasoning, but from my angle, you'll start losing a lot of detail very quickly when you go from single to multiple models. Keep in mind the provinces are very small. I play EU4 a fair bit (a fair bit more after HoI4 was delayed, lol, but EU4 is a great game on its own merits) and it's difficult to make out details on the 'single character' models they have there. Shrink those models to a third or a fifth of their current size, and it will be very difficult to make out the details in the uniform, or of the tank, or the aircraft/ship.

I think this would be a great idea for a game that had larger provinces (if, say, we only mustered units at a state level), but for a province-level game, it would make the models so small we'll lose too many details (so instead of seeing someone in a German or Japanese uniform, say, it'll only be clearly visible as a person). Could also make the rendering load on the GPU higher as well (I know in an earlier version of Civ, you could have simplified units with just one model, to help with performance).

 

[Mac Lazer]

Why not have the number of models correlate to the number of divisions in a province? For example, if a province has 4 divisions in it, there are 4 unit models. If it has 7 divisions, then there are 7 unit models, and so on.

 

[KiwiNoob]

Why not have the number of models correlate to the number of divisions in a province? For example, if a province has 4 divisions in it, there are 4 unit models. If it has 7 divisions, then there are 7 unit models, and so on.

Because the majority of the map would still have only one, maybe two guys.

 

[KiwiNoob]

Yes, maybe 3 = full strength; 1 soldier shows average strength down less that 33% ???

Unfortunately changing the number of guys based on strength would give additional information to opponents that they otherwise wouldn't have.

Only having your units reduce in size while the opponents all 'looked' at full strength would be visually odd.

 

[fabius]

Unfortunately changing the number of guys based on strength would give additional information to opponents that they otherwise wouldn't have.

Only having your units reduce in size while the opponents all 'looked' at full strength would be visually odd.

Good point.

Though those on front line could give some hint. Raggy uniforms for poor Org and Strength based on intel.