cant wait for the mod; the design system now is not living up to its potential at all.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
You already have Battalions, only here they are called support brigades. They still only have 1000 strength.
What would the point of adding frontline battalions be? You would still need 3 of them per brigade and since the division is made up of mostly frontline troops, well you would be making divisions of 9 Identical Battalions instead of 3 brigades but with the exact same stats.
Its also historical to limit most divisions to 6Bn or 9Bn since this was used by pretty much every army around.
If you want enhance the system I would suggest just raising the brigade count so you can add a few more support "brigades". This is modifiable according to DDs.
Why would you build a 3/1 unit? As far as I can tell you need maximum firepower per frontage, so INF-ART-ART-ART or at least INF-INF-ART-ART would be much better...
At least in Poland, roughly 1/2 of my units sit around in reserves because they simply have too much frontage...
I like the new system, a lot. It is much more flexible than the HOI2 system.
For example, you can build the uber Police Division to keep down the rabble. 2x Gar bdes, 2x MP bdes. Massive suppression value.
Or, if you need a mobile force behind the lines, build a semi-motorized cav division (1x Cav Bde, 2x Arm Car or Lt Tank Bdes, 1x Eng bde).
Want a modern style combined arms division? How about 2xTank Bdes, 1x Mech Bde, 1xSP Art bde.
The combinations are endless. Massively cool.
For example, you can build the uber Police Division to keep down the rabble. 2x Gar bdes, 2x MP bdes. Massive suppression value.
Or, if you need a mobile force behind the lines, build a semi-motorized cav division (1x Cav Bde, 2x Arm Car or Lt Tank Bdes, 1x Eng bde).
Want a modern style combined arms division? How about 2xTank Bdes, 1x Mech Bde, 1xSP Art bde.
The combinations are endless. Massively cool.
I won't repeat what the others have said, just state the obvious which everyone seems to have missed so far.
Even if what you say is true, does it matter? I'm sure the game will come with a few ready templates for divisions, so if you swear by the notion that the vanilla INF-INF-INF-ART brigade is the only one worth having, you can just use that template and mass-produce. It's not like anyone will be forced to customize his divisions; the feature exists there for those who want to do it, it's not a liability for those who don't want to use it. Or, even in the unlikely case that there aren't templates, how long will it actually take you to make those few templates you'll use throughout the game? Not many minutes I guess.
For a moment, KeldorKatarn made me doubt about the whole division thing. But he is simplifying things in an extrem way and I think Espen Svendsen is right. You can experiment your own divisions, and if you don't like it you can come back to the HoI 2 way of doing, that is to say building 3 infantry brigades standing for an infantry division.
Because there is a stacking penalty on battles for brigades.. which means that if you have, say, a normal 3 3-0 inf fighting in a province of 10 frontage, that is 9 brigades, the same frontage as 9 1-3 inf/art divisions, which would be 36 brigades
the second will take a lot more stacking penalties than the first. such penalties are called "coordination penalties" and can only be reduced by having a better skilled theater commander.
So? I get 36% combat penalty for stacking instead of 9%, but each div has about double Softattack. Still a bonus in total - and the penalty can be countered by a decent commander.
Any way to see how high the penalty is? managed to build some 1 INF / 3 ART divs, but hadn't a chance to actually check their combat performance, only several minor skirmishes...
I'm not entirely sure ; I do know that each of the field marchal's skill points counteract 1% of stack penalty. I think it may be 1% per brigade, but I have no way of knowing per say.
We'll have to wait for the full game to see if it works this well. There are other arguments too - a division of 1 inf + 3 art will simply be much more fragile, defensiveness and toughness will be much lower, and this will be compounded by the stacking penalty so that these heavy divisions might very well be very fragile when used in large quantities.
although i agree with u in that there arent many practical alternates, its more than hoi 2 and theres the "you never know" factor.
armor and mots now makeup a combined division, not 2 seperate divisions (for the most part as pure mots have their roles still). infantry/art are practical in a 3-2, 3-1, 2-2, 2-1 setup instead of just 3-1. plus u can bluff with hundreds of small divisions or fake being weak and annihilate with 50 huge divisions.
armor and mots now makeup a combined division, not 2 seperate divisions (for the most part as pure mots have their roles still). infantry/art are practical in a 3-2, 3-1, 2-2, 2-1 setup instead of just 3-1. plus u can bluff with hundreds of small divisions or fake being weak and annihilate with 50 huge divisions.
Agreed, though I will do some tests on that subject (say hello to 0.01 IC / 1 day ART
).Hm, Granted, INF-INF-INF has a default defensiveness of 16, while INF-ART-ART-ART has only 15, but since you got 4 brigades, they benefit from tech developements more than the 3 brigade div...
In addition, you can bring more units to the front (= more targets) so in a 10 frontage combat, you can actually stack 10x16=160 defensiveness instead of 4x15=60 with INF-INF-INF divs.
But, yes, stacking penalty & officer need will be your biggest enemy!!
And dont forget you can reorganize your whole army afterwards!
I am quite sure not long ago five brigades were mentioned . I was willing to live with that but did not expect less .
Apart from recreating standard divisions there is really not much you can do. If you add one artillery brigade and one AA brigade for example there is only room for two front line brigades - which makes the division too weak in the end. So actually you can only afford one "specialist" brigade per division - as it was in HoI 2!
It is just annoying that you have to click divisions now instead of corps in HoI 2.
. I was willing to live with that but did not expect less .Apart from recreating standard divisions there is really not much you can do. If you add one artillery brigade and one AA brigade for example there is only room for two front line brigades - which makes the division too weak in the end. So actually you can only afford one "specialist" brigade per division - as it was in HoI 2!
It is just annoying that you have to click divisions now instead of corps in HoI 2.
Another problem would be that these stacks are much more vulnerable to bad supply or logistical strike.
But I guess that's a price you always pay for putting more combat power on the front. I'm not sure if its better or worse then using tanks divisions instead however.
I am imagining artillery focus like some middle-ground between pure infantry and tanks divisions.
+1
These are my exact thoughts on the new division designer. And while maybe Inf-Inf-Inf-Art may end up being on paper the most efficient division, the designer opens up so many possibilities for flavour, Role Playing, and general lulz (I am so totally building a division made up solely of Maus-Style heavy tanks as soon as possible
)
Right, that is a point. However, you could just bring 5 instead of 10 of these divisions along. Basicly, you would have a more dynamic army, less relying on flanking attacks and alike. Though the IC cost is probably immense - and lets not forget that ART research needs additional leadership.
The even better question is now imo if you should use plain armor or combined arms.
Pure armor seems to be great with 10-20% softness (and for example the TD is really neat!), but a 30% CA bonus IS massive...
Btw, I just attacked with 4 ART-ART-ART-ART divs - and they kicked the butt off 2 Polish defenders... And I could even stack 17 single ART brigades + 4 INF-INF-INF in a single combat, since pure ART has frontage 0. Doubt that this is WAD... :wacko:
You can get an even bigger CA bonus. There's a tech for a further 10% and Panzerleader gives another 10. You could even stack up corps/army commanders etc all with panzer leader for a further...9.325%, I think, although that'll be rounded.
I am quite sure not long ago five brigades were mentioned
4 has always been the default, there's a tech that lets you have 5.