Division Structure Question

[77Hawk77]

It seems like that the divisions can have 5 brigades or main sub units if you will.
However it seems from the videos that, you can only add more regiments of the same type to a brigade. So eventually you can have a brigade with 5 infantry regiments, even now it seems that most divisions start off with 9 regiments.

Either way it seems like the divisions have a huge size, but not a lot of variaty. While I know that combined arms brigades wasn't very common in ww2, they should still be possible i feel like, atleast after research is done, so that you can have both tanks and infantry in the same brigade/column.

As a referance, Try compare a german tank division from 1939 to how many regiments are in the average hoi4 division judging from the screenshots. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/German_Panzer_DIV_1939.png

Maybe i am not quite sure what the subunits of the division is supposed to represent, while it's certainly a nice idea, to choose some support companies, it just seems a little dull, if all you can do with the extra other slots is more of the same.

 

[Vidkjaer]

Support units have a bonus to the division. Each type gives a type specific bonus to the division. Fx more initiative, better reinforcement, better chance for selecting best combat tactic and so on.

Regarding the division build the rules are as follows:

Each regiment (column) can only have a "genre" type specifik battalion. These group types are

Regiment, artillery, antiair, antiTank
Motorised, cavalry, other motorized units (fx variants)
Light Tank, medium tank, heavy tank, selfpropelled AA, AT and their variants.

So a division can consist of

R1 R2 R3 R4
Inf Inf LT Mot
Inf Inf MT Mot
Inf AA HT Mot
Art Art Cav
AT AT

if you want it to. You just cant mix armor or motorized with infantry, artillery and antitank in each regiment column.

 

[77Hawk77]

That's a lot better, but it doesn't make much sense that you can't mix infantry and armour though.

 

[Vidkjaer]

That's a lot better, but it doesn't make much sense that you can't mix infantry and armour though.

You can. Just not in the same regiment.

 

[guillec87]

what happened to Mech?

 

[77Hawk77]

You can. Just not in the same regiment.

Which is what i said from the beginning.

 

[griffor]

Which is what i said from the beginning.

in the www germany has motorized units in its tank divisons so it looks like u can at 44:56 in 3rd one anyways

 

[GsusNSV]

in the www germany has motorized units in its tank divisons so it looks like u can at 44:56 in 3rd one anyways

In his defense, I think, he is asking, why you can't put tanks and infanterie in one brigade.

Example:
tank | Mot | Mot
tank | Mot | Mot
Mot | Art | TD

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

in the www germany has motorized units in its tank divisons so it looks like u can at 44:56 in 3rd one anyways

Again the OP is talking about combined arms regiments, not divisions. For example the combat commands of historical US armored divisions. In game terms those divisions would be built around three regiments each with mech battalion and two medium tank battalions.

 

[griffor]

Again the OP is talking about combined arms regiments, not divisions. For example the combat commands of historical US armored divisions. In game terms those divisions would be built around three regiments each with mech battalion and two medium tank battalions.

and you can't do that in game? with 2 lines of tanks and 1 of inf, or am i not understanding what he is asking

 

[77Hawk77]

and you can't do that in game? with 2 lines of tanks and 1 of inf, or am i not understanding what he is asking

Let me say it like this

 

[panzerzombie]

In the second video with Troy at 3.59, where he added Heavy tanks to the existing Panzerdivision-Template ( 2 LT each per brigade 1&2) he only could choose between light and heavy tank battalions to add/change and no Infantry/mot.Inf or non-motorized Guns ( perhaps motorized Guns could be added but they were not researched yet iirc ).

But in the 4th video Jakob at 32.02 when he wanted to change a LightTankbattalion into a medium one he suddenly had the option to choose from infantry / motorized / armored ( he chose armored ). It seems they changed it and you CAN have mixed brigades now...

Edit: Your "what I want" section

 

[Vidkjaer]

But in the 4th video Jakob at 32.02 when he wanted to change a LightTankbattalion into a medium one he suddenly had the option to choose from infantry / motorized / armored ( he chose armored ). It seems they changed it and you CAN have mixed brigades now...

Edit: Your "what I want" section

Well spotted Sir.
However we do not know if the infantry or motorised group would be empty if he had choosed them instead of armoured.

I guess the reason for this limitation is to force the player to make strategic choices. You have a limited amount of army XP and the way you spent them affects the game for you. Hence spending them wisely to compliment your gaming style makes choices interesting and strategic.

If one were allowed to build divisions without some limitations, everybody would go for the optimum one.

On another note i would like to be able to build one battalion divisions from the very start. You know, as border guards. That would cost me 35 XP and would be an exploit to get the Anschluss very early (was it 60 divisions you needed for that?).

 

[Zaku]

Let me say it like this

I see what you mean, but what would be the gameplay effect of this change? It would still have the stats of 3ARM 6 MEC.

 

[panzerzombie]

Well spotted Sir.
However we do not know if the infantry or motorised group would be empty if he had choosed them instead of armoured.

I guess the reason for this limitation is to force the player to make strategic choices. You have a limited amount of army XP and the way you spent them affects the game for you. Hence spending them wisely to compliment your gaming style makes choices interesting and strategic.

If one were allowed to build divisions without some limitations, everybody would go for the optimum one.

On another note i would like to be able to build one battalion divisions from the very start. You know, as border guards. That would cost me 35 XP and would be an exploit to get the Anschluss very early (was it 60 divisions you needed for that?).

35 Exp ? not 25 ?

I think I´m going with unchanged Cav-Divisions (4 bataillons) ... gamey enough but it takes a long time to get that exp.

And yes it was 60 Divisons for Anschluss / 80 for Sudetenland/Czech. / 90 for Molotov-Ribbentrop

 

[Vidkjaer]

35 Exp ? not 25 ?

I think I´m going with unchanged Cav-Divisions (4 bataillons) ... gamey enough but it takes a long time to get that exp.

And yes it was 60 Divisons for Anschluss / 80 for Sudetenland/Czech. / 90 for Molotov-Ribbentrop

25 for opening of brigade and 10 for one battalion unless a battalion is included when a regiment is unlocked?
Earlier it was 5 for a battalion, but the latest video shows 10 for a battalion.

 

[77Hawk77]

I see what you mean, but what would be the gameplay effect of this change? It would still have the stats of 3ARM 6 MEC.

No gameplay change, so i see no reason to prevent it, it's just more immersive.

Though divisions in this game are still about the size of a late war full armored corps.

 

[alkomon]

Let me say it like this

It is possible to use organization like you want in HOI IV (Pz-Mec-Mec; Pz-Mec-Mec; Pz-Mec-Mec).

 

[Zaku]

No gameplay change, so i see no reason to prevent it, it's just more immersive.

Though divisions in this game are still about the size of a late war full armored corps.

It's fine for me either way, but I can understand that you'd like to mix battalions up for flavor.
I'm more like the organized guy, I like to have ordely brigades

 

[panzerzombie]

25 for opening of brigade and 10 for one battalion unless a battalion is included when a regiment is unlocked?
Earlier it was 5 for a battalion, but the latest video shows 10 for a battalion.

Ah thank you, overlooked it obviously ^^

Edit: oh wait, don´t you get the first battalion for the 25 Exp and by that "opening" it ? And after that
each new brigade costs 25 for the first battalion in it.

Not sure myself