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Raventhefuhrer

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This is my list. Units in bolded and underlined are not 100% certain. Units which are regular text are ones I am 100% certain about

Allies-
101st Airborne (American)
6th Airborne (British)
3rd Canadian Infantry
1st Polish Armored
2nd French Armored
15th Infantry (British/Scottish)
American Infantry. Almost certainly either the 1st or the 29th
3rd Armoured (American)
1st Guards Armoured (British)

Axis-
12th SS Panzer 'Hitlerjugend'
21st Panzer
Panzer Lehr
116th Panzer 'Windhund'
352nd Infantry
716th Infantry
17th SS Panzergrenadier 'Gotz von Berlichingen'
Fallschirmjager. Almost certainly the 2nd which was at Carentan
91st Luftlande Division
 

EUG_MadMat

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Fallschirmjager. Almost certainly the 2nd which was at Carentan
2. Fallschirmjäger-Division spent most of the Normandy campaign ... in Britanny, in garrison at Brest.
The "Lions of Carentan" you are referring to are the 6. Fallschirmjäger-Regiment, theoretically from 2. FJD, but actually independent and soon attached for the Normandy campaign to the 91. Luftlande-Division. And as you mentioned it, the latter is already confirmed ingame ... ;)
 

Sotahullu

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Well 91. Luftlande-Division was a real oddball unit so it propably fits in.

However, what about 3rd Fallchirmjäger-Division then? It was heavily involved in Normandy.
 

LKHERO

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1st SS LSSAH confirmed?

Two historical Panzer aces you can deploy in battle:
  • Michael Wittman, one of the most feared commanders in the late war, famed for his ambush at Villiers-Bocage. (Tiger E)
 

jammci

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This might sound a bit stupid, but what was the reason for the Choice of the 15th Scottish Division rather than the 50th Northumbrian Division or the 51st Highland Division, just curious
 

EUG_MadMat

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This might sound a bit stupid, but what was the reason for the Choice of the 15th Scottish Division rather than the 50th Northumbrian Division or the 51st Highland Division, just curious
Because we had to pick one, and the 15th was central in the Odon / Hill 112 battles.

What about the 79th Armoured? Hobart's Funnies, surely...?
Because it was not a "real" division, in the sense that it was not meant to fight as a whole, but to provide temporary specialist elements to other divisions.
 

steelers708

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Ah, so which division do you think he will be assigned to?

sSSPz Abt.101 was a Korps asset of the the I.SS Pzkorps ' LSSAH' and as such could be assigned to support any division within that Korps. The units assigned to the I.SS Pzkorps in June 1944 were 716th inf, 21st Pz, 12th SS, Pz lehr, in July 1944 272nd Inf, 1st SS and in August 1944 85th Inf, 89th Inf, 12th SS Pz, 18th Luftwaffe Inf and Kampfgruppe 6th Fallschimjager division.
 

Widar Thule

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Wittman wasn't with LSSAH anymore in Normandy.


Well spotted indeed.


Well technically Wittmann in the summer of 1944 was part of the I. SS-Panzerkorps "Leibstandarte", since the s.SS-Pz.Abt. 101. (later renamed 501.) was an integral part of that Panzerkorps.

Among other units the I. SS-Panzerkorps "Leibstandarte" included:

- s.SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101./501. (Corps unit)
- s.SS-Artillerie-Abteilung 101./501. (Corps unit with a quite interesting TO&E)
- 1. SS-Panzer-Division "LSSAH"
- 12. SS-Panzer-Division "HJ"

Needless to say Wittmann still wore the cuff title of the "LSSAH" up till his death, since this was allowed to members of the Corps units of the I. SS-Panzerkorps "Leibstandarte". A case can be argued of course that Wittmann was technically not part of the 1. SS-Panzer-Division "LSSAH", but since the "LSSAH" forces encompassed more than just that division Wittmann was technically still part of the "LSSAH" forces.

But all that hair splitting aside MadMat, will the 1. SS-Panzer-Division "LSSAH" be included in "Steel Division: Normandy 1944"?

I hope that the 1. SS-Pz.Div. "LSSAH" is included in "Steel Division: Normandy 1944" because not fielding that key division in Normandy would be like excluding Napoleon I's "Old Garde" ("Le 1er régiment de grenadiers à pied de la Garde impériale") from an 1815 Waterloo game...

Another key issue is that generally all western allied infantry divisions on the western front were for all intents and purposes fully motorized in 1944 (except for some special units like the 10th US Mountain Division in Italy) but the German infantry divisions were not (save for divisional services etc.). So fielding a German 1944 Infanterie-Division versus a British or USA Infantry-Divison would be quite unbalanced in "Steel Division: Normandy 1944", because the German infantry would have to move on foot and as a result be outmatched by the faster more flexible truck mounted British and USA infantry. Not to mention that western allied infantry divisions more often than not had a tank battalion attached, something that generally no German infantry division had in 1944.

Technically the Panzer-Grenadier-Divisionen (with the exception of the one-of-a-kind Army (Heer) Panzer-Grenadier-Division "Großdeutschland") were more or less the equivalents of western allied infantry divisions in that these were motorized (using trucks for transport), and technically the Panzer-Divisionen were more or less the equivalents of western allied armoured divisions in that these were mechanized (using tanks, armoured half tracks, self propelled armoured artillery etc.). USA Armoured divisions for example generally had all of their armoured infantry battalions etc. in half tracks etc. and all their artillery battalions were armoured (and self propelled) but the Germans Panzer-Dvisionen were never fully mechanized but for the main only motorized.

Moreover all German Panzer-Divisionen had at best two mechanized infantry battalions, normally the armoured reconnaissance battalion and one armoured infantry battalion. And only one battalion of mechanized artillery, the remainder of the artillery battalions being motorized. The only exception for the entire war was the 130. Panzer-Lehr-Division of the German Army (Heer) which for the main was fully mechanized, making it the best equipped German Panzer-Division in that respect for the entire war. The 130. Panzer-Lehr-Division had all of its four infantry battalions, its armoured engineer battalion and its armoured reconnaissance battalion in half tracks etc. (for the main). Interestingly the only combat unit of the 130. Panzer-Lehr-Division which was not mechanized at all was the Artillerie-Regiment, which was only motorized.

Generally all the mechanized units of a Panzer-Division were concentrated in a mechanized battle group in practice, so that should work out when fielding an US Armoured Division Combat Command (A or B) versus a Panzer-Division mechanized battle group (Panzerkampfgruppe).

The main TO&E difference between the Army (Heer) and Waffen SS Panzer-Divisionen by 1944 was to be found in that the regular Army (Heer) Panzer-Divisionen had four infantry battalions (3x motorized, 1x mechanized) and the regular Waffen SS Panzer-Divisionen had six infantry battalions (5x motorized, 1x mechanized). The Army (Heer) 130. Panzer-Lehr-Division and the Army (Heer) Panzer-Grenadier-Division "Großdeutschland" were exceptions and each had a different/special TO&E which made them the best equipped Panzer-Divisionen in the German Armed Forces (Wehrmacht). The Army (Heer) and Waffen SS Panzer-Grenadier-Divisionen for the main used the same TO&E by late 1944.

But I am sure the good people at Eugen know all this, or at least I hope they do.
 

EUG_MadMat

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Among the unsual TO&E, you forgot to mention 21. Panzerdivision which, thanks to Major Becker's effort, had 2x armored (on modified Unic half-track) & 2x motorized infantry battalions, instead of the usual 1/3 ratio.
I also seem to remember that 2. Panzerdivision, for some reason had the same 2/2 ratio.
 

steelers708

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Well technically Wittmann in the summer of 1944 was part of the I. SS-Panzerkorps "Leibstandarte", since the s.SS-Pz.Abt. 101. (later renamed 501.) was an integral part of that Panzerkorps.

Among other units the I. SS-Panzerkorps "Leibstandarte" included:

- s.SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101./501. (Corps unit)
- s.SS-Artillerie-Abteilung 101./501. (Corps unit with a quite interesting TO&E)
- 1. SS-Panzer-Division "LSSAH"
- 12. SS-Panzer-Division "HJ"

The LSSAH & HJ were never assigned to the I.SS Pzkorps at the same time in Normandy. In June '44 the LSSAH was in reserve under the direct command of the 15th Armee, whilst the HJ were attached to the I. SS Pzkorps, 7.Armee, in July'44 the LSSAH was attached to the I.SS Pzkorps, PzGr.West whilst the HJ was under the command of the LXXXVI Korps, PzGr.West, only in August '44 were both the LSSAH & HJ attached to the same Korps but it was the LXXX Korps, I Armee and not the I.SS Pzkorps.
 

Widar Thule

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The LSSAH & HJ were never assigned to the I.SS Pzkorps at the same time in Normandy. In June '44 the LSSAH was in reserve under the direct command of the 15th Armee, whilst the HJ were attached to the I. SS Pzkorps, 7.Armee, in July'44 the LSSAH was attached to the I.SS Pzkorps, PzGr.West whilst the HJ was under the command of the LXXXVI Korps, PzGr.West, only in August '44 were both the LSSAH & HJ attached to the same Korps but it was the LXXX Korps, I Armee and not the I.SS Pzkorps.

The four Waffen SS units I named were organic to the I. SS-Panzerkorps "Leibstandarte", that these very units were on occasion temporarily attached to other Corps for various reasons I am well aware of. It was not uncommon that divisional units would be subordinated to Corps and other divisions for various reasons. The key issue is to what higher level formation were they organic, where they belonged. For example if the reconnaissance battalion SS-Pz.A.A. 12. was detached to say another division then it would organically still be part of the 12. SS-Pz.Div. "HJ" but tactically subordinated to another division. The four Waffen SS units I named were part of the "LSSAH" Verbände (formations/forces), as were the "LSSAH" units in Berlin.

It can be fun to split hairs.
 

EUG_MadMat

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To clarify things a bit ...
We have included SS divisions when we saw fit because we didn't want to self-censor ourselves more than needed (the German version of the game has the same SS division, names, ... just a few different coat of arms), but that doesn't mean we focused on adding more and more SS units.
There are two SS divisions ingame, 12. SS because it is the 'mainstream Panzerdivision TO&E' and you can't make Normandy without them, and 17. SS because it was the sole Panzergrenadier-Division in Normandy.
 

Widar Thule

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Among the unsual TO&E, you forgot to mention 21. Panzerdivision which, thanks to Major Becker's effort, had 2x armored (on modified Unic half-track) & 2x motorized infantry battalions, instead of the usual 1/3 ratio.
I also seem to remember that 2. Panzerdivision, for some reason had the same 2/2 ratio.

Yes absolutely correct, the 21. Panzer-Division also was a one of a kind unit, with amazing, exotic and truly unique equipment. Not sure about the 2. Panzer-Division, I would have to look that up in my books when I am home again, but you could be right. There were some interesting examples to the general rule when it comes to TO&E. If I remember correctly the 319. Infanterie-Division was the only German infantry division on the western front which still had the 1939 organization of 3x Infanterie-Regiment of 3x Infanterie-Bataillon and TO&E wise was arguably the strongest German infantry division on the western front, but it was wastefully and uselessly deployed in the Channel islands. The other German infantry divisions generally mostly having the 1944 organization of 3x Infanterie-Regiment of 2x Infanterie-Bataillon (6x infantry battallions in total) or even less than that.