Division make up in modern and WW2 armies

[vodkafire]

Can anyone tell me the division make up of WW2 late war US Army divisions and German divisions, as well as Modern US divisions? Like how many infantry, arty, armoured, engineer, etc. regiments/brigades are in a WW2 armoured division, or mechanized, or infantry division? What about modern US divisions? Armored, Cav, Airborne, Infantry, etc. And can anyone estimate the approximate manpower and armor strength in each division?

Also, what is a brigade exactly? Is it any arbitrary large group of troops, larger than a regiment but smaller than a division, who performs specific functions(ex. an armourd brigade)? or is it strictly a grouping of 2 regiments(in the pre WW2 square organization sense)?

Just curious, Thanx.

 

[Tim O]

Since WWII a brigade is traditionally two or three regiments, Although the 173 Airborne Brigade only consists of two infantry battalions plus a company of light artillery and a company of engineers, etc for a strength of just 1,800. The average brigade has 4-5,000 men. A division will have three to four brigades and can have from 12-20,000 men.

I got this info from CNN, I'll list the major units in Iraq or tasked to go there.
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3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized)

Soldiers: 15,000

Home forts: Fort Stewart, Hunter Army Air Field, and Fort Benning, Georgia

Deployed to: Kuwait

Units: The 1st and 3rd Brigades, along with aviation, artillery, logistic and support brigades, will join the division's 2nd Brigade, which is already in Kuwait.

Duties: The 3rd Division is a highly mobile, rapid-response unit of the Army's XVIII Airborne Corps. Its weaponry includes the M1A1 Abrams battle tank, the M2A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the AH-64 Apache attack helicopter.

http://www.stewart.army.mil/
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1st Marine Expeditionary Force

Home camp: Camp Pendleton, California

Destination: Kuwait

Units: The Pentagon ordered some units of the 45,000-member expeditionary force to deploy to the Persian Gulf region for the war with Iraq. The MEF has overall command of all Marine units in the Persian Gulf region and it includes elements of the 1st Marine Division and the 1st Marine Regiment plus Marine aviation units. Roughly 7,000 Marines from the 1st Marine Regiment and about 3,000 sailors left San Diego January 17, 2003, aboard the amphibious assault ships USS Bonhomme Richard and USS Boxer, amphibious transport dock ships USS Cleveland and USS Dubuque, and dock landing ships USS Anchorage, USS Comstock and USS Pearl Harbor.

More than 1,000 Marines from the 1st MEF were already in Kuwait at Camp Commando, a desert base camp near Iraq. On January 7, 2,100 Marines from the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, which is part of the 1st MEF, departed San Diego aboard the amphibious assault ships USS Tarawa, USS Duluth and USS Rushmore. The regularly scheduled deployment is not a part of the overall buildup of forces in the Persian Gulf. About 1,900 sailors are included in the deployment.

Duties: A Marine Expeditionary Force is the largest and most robust Marine-Air Ground Task Force (MAGTF). A MAGTF combines air elements, ground combat elements and logistical support elements under the command of a three-star general. An MEF can be comprised of one or more full Marine Aircraft Wings, one or more Force Service Support Groups and one or more complete infantry Divisions. The makeup of a typical MEF includes the following:

• Command Element plus C2 and reconnaissance/surveillance assets
• An Marine division of 18,000 Marines organized into three infantry regiments, one artillery regiment, one tank battalion, one anti-aircraft battalion, one combat engineering battalion and one light-armored battalion.
• A Marine Aircraft Wing with 15,000 Marines and approximately 300 aircraft.
• A Force Service Support Group of 9,000 Marines to provide supply, maintenance, health services, transportation and other logistical services.

http://www.cpp.usmc.mil/imef/index.htm
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101st Airborne Division (Air Assault)

Soldiers: 20,000

Home fort: Fort Campbell, Kentucky

Deployed to: Kuwait

Units: The division includes three brigades plus two aviation brigades, an artillery unit and several supporting units, totaling 20,000 soldiers.

Duties: The 101st Airborne, known as the "Screaming Eagles," bills itself as the "only air assault division in the world" and has the ability to conduct air assault operations and long-range helicopter assaults. The division is armed with 270 helicopters, including thee battalions of Apache attack helicopters.

In Afghanistan, the 101st Airborne soldiers fought in Operation Anaconda, the March 2002 battle in the Shah-e-Kot valley. Apache helicopters from the 101st Airborne fired the first shots in the Persian Gulf war, destroying Iraqi early-warning radar sites 22 minutes before the air war began on January 17, 1991. The 101st Airborne also penetrated deep into Kuwait to cut off Iraqi forces fleeing toward the Iraqi-Kuwaiti border.

http://www.campbell.army.mil/division.htm
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82nd Airborne Division

Soldiers: 5,000

Home fort: Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Deployed to: An official Army statement said the soldiers are deploying to "support the global war on terrorism."

Units: The division's 2nd Brigade, 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment, a quick-reaction brigade combat team that has more than 4,000 soldiers, was ordered to deploy on January 12, 2003. Also ordered to deploy were 18th Airborne Corps support elements consisting of the 35th Signal Brigade and 525th Military Intelligence Brigade. Other 82nd Airborne units are in Afghanistan.

Duties: The 82nd Airborne's traditional role is speedy insertion -- typically via plane and parachute or by helicopter -- of soldiers on or near a battlefield.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/
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173rd Airborne Brigade

Soldiers: 1,800

Home fort: Caserma Ederle, Vicenza, Italy

Deployed to: Northern Iraq

Units: The brigade includes two airborne infantry battalions, one engineer detachment, one reconnaissance company, one field artillery battery and one forward support company.

Duties: Nicknamed "Sky Soldiers," the 173rd serves as the U.S. European Command's only conventional airborne rapid-reaction force.

173rd Airborne soldiers fought in World War II and Vietnam but the unit was deactivated in 1972. In June 2002, the brigade was reactivated under U.S. European Command, giving the command the ability to provide an immediate response to crisis situations throughout Europe.

http://www.173abnbde.setaf.army.mil/
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Army soldiers listen to President George W. Bush speak during the president's visit to Fort Hood in Killeen, Texas, on January 3, 2003.

4th Infantry Division

Soldiers: More than 13,500

Home fort: Fort Hood, Texas

Deployed to: An official III Corps statement said the soldiers are being deployed to "support the global war on terrorism."

Units: The entire 4th Infantry Division plus elements of the 13th Corps Support Command, including transportation, engineering and medical units.

Duties: The 4th Infantry Division will head Task Force Iron Horse, made up of more than 37,000 troops from 10 military installations. The 4th Division is a heavy-armor division that employs M1A2 Abrams tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, 155 mm howitzers, anti-tank and anti-armor AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, and UH-60 Black Hawk transport helicopters in combat operations. Up to 4,000 soldiers with the division's 3rd Brigade, based at Fort Carson, Colorado, are also part of the deployment.

The 13th Corps Support Command provides logistical aid to III Corps units.

http://www.hood.army.mil/
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1st Cavalry Division

Soldiers: 17,000

Home fort: Fort Hood, Texas

Deployed to: An official III Corps statement released on March 3, 2003, said the soldiers are being deployed to "support the global war on terrorism."

Units: The 1st Cavalry Division includes seven brigade-sized units plus an air defense artillery battalion, signal battalion, military intelligence battalion, chemical company and military police company.

Duties: The 1st Cavalry Division is a heavy-armor division that employs M1A2 Abrams tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, artillery and AH-64 Apache Longbow attack helicopters. The division is the Army's largest and its only armored contingency force. It also served in the 1991 Persian Gulf war.

http://pao.hood.army.mil/1stcavdiv/default.htm
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[Tim O]

Here's an article on the force structure of the U.S. Army in the Second World War.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/70-7_15.htm

Here's an excerpt.

Of all the calculated risks taken by General George C. Marshall in World War II none was bolder than the decision in mid-war to maintain the U.S. Army's ground combat strength at ninety divisions. Students of warfare will long debate whether the decision was as wise as it was courageous, as foresighted as it was successful.

The decision to limit the Army, ratified in May 1944 on the eve of OVERLORD, was a compound of necessity and choice. A variety of influences played a part in it-national policy, Allied strategy, air power, American technology, the balance between American war economy and manpower, logistical and operational requirements, the needs of Allies and sister services, and General Marshall's faith in the fighting qualities of the American soldier. The decision came at the end of a long series of steps going back to the pre-Pearl Harbor days when American planners had first begun to be concerned about the problem of determining the size and shape of the Army needed for global and coalition warfare. [1]

 

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Marine division

Speaking from experience, a seabee battalion or regiment is usually attatched to a marine division in time of war. This was the case in wwII also. I was with the 21st CB rgt attatched to 2nd marine div in desert storm. I'm in 21st Battalion (reserves) and we are preparing to deploy with 4th Marine division (reserve). We generally assist in building advance bases (i.e.tent city and firebases), set-up temporary roads, helicopter LZ's, help with convoys and establish electrical, fuel and fresh water supply.
A CB battalion has 6 rifle companies with a heavy weapons platoon (TOW and 60mm mortars, plus .50cal MG) intigrated in the HQ company. Usually 3 battalions would make up a regt and 3 regts a CB brigade. There are presently only 3 brigades existing, one reserve and 2 active.

 

[unmerged(5120)]

Re: Marine division

Originally posted by seabee
Speaking from experience, a seabee battalion or regiment is usually attatched to a marine division in time of war. This was the case in wwII also. I was with the 21st CB rgt attatched to 2nd marine div in desert storm. I'm in 21st Battalion (reserves) and we are preparing to deploy with 4th Marine division (reserve). We generally assist in building advance bases (i.e.tent city and firebases), set-up temporary roads, helicopter LZ's, help with convoys and establish electrical, fuel and fresh water supply.
A CB battalion has 6 rifle companies with a heavy weapons platoon (TOW and 60mm mortars, plus .50cal MG) intigrated in the HQ company. Usually 3 battalions would make up a regt and 3 regts a CB brigade. There are presently only 3 brigades existing, one reserve and 2 active.

In my book 3 regiments of 3 battalions each make up a division, not a brigade...

 

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The units are in order:
Army Group
Army
Corp
Divison
Brigade
Regiment
Battallion
Company

Depending on time, nationality and place it seems that the content vary massivly but contains only units of lesser size (below themeself in the list). So a Divison shoud normally consits of one or more Brigades and lesser supporting elements.

 

[unmerged(8399)]

Brigade, regiment and battalion can be confusing, depending from armies and periods. For instance, in the British army from Napoleonic times a regiment was composed of a single battalion, so that they are sometimes named battalions and other times regiments, on the other hand GErman Inf divisions in WWII had 3 Inf regiments of 3 Inf Bns each, but no Brigade structure.
The problem, regardless of name, is that we have 4 names for 3 levels.
1st Level: Division: this is an independent operational force, composed of all elements, artillery, engineers, recon units, AA and AA units, even air units in the modern US army.

2nd Level: Brigade/Regiment: An Infantry force with some support elements, like small AT units and field artillery. British army in WWII used Brigade as his main operational unit instead of Division, that was reduced to a HQs structure that provide some special unit support to Bdes, while German army used predominantly divisions. In general a formation with a more independent role would be named Brigade, while one designed to serve under Divisional HQs direct command would be named Regiment

3rd Level: Battalion, an Infantry unit, roughly about 800 strong (modern battalions are usually smaller)

 

[Kurek]

I did some research on Britains army, on the official site there is a Units and Organisations page, http://www.army.mod.uk/unitsandorgs/index.htm, from what I read on that I managed to make some notes on how the Uk army is organised.


Army HQ

Corps
A Corps is a term used to describe a collection of Regiments or small groupings of soldiers that share a common area of specialist expertise

Division
3 or 4 Brigades.

Brigade
A Brigade is a collection of different Regiments and supporting units that have been grouped together for a specific purpose. A fighting Brigade will traditionally contain Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery Regiments together with many supporting cap badges. The composition of each Brigade will differ depending on its responsibility but could often contain 5,000 soldiers.

Regiment
650 soldiers (est)

Batallion
Sometimes Infantry Regiments have more than one unit of this size and they should
be correctly referred to as a Battalion and be numbered in ascending order.


Well, thats how the main meat of the British Amry is structured, god knows about how the Special forces and the Administrative and Support Corps and branches are made up,

I do know that in mainland Britain the HQ is HQ Land Command, and there is about 5 divisions, I think, and 2 of them are fighting divisons, the others are admin.

And if anyones intrested, heres a complete list of all the Royal Army Corps.

The Royal Armoured Corps
The Royal Regiment of Artilery
The Infantry
The Corps of Royal Engineers
The Royal Logistic Corps
The Corps of Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers
Army Physcial Training Corps
Queen Alexandria's Royal Amry Medical Corps
The Army Air Corps
The Adjutant Generals Corps
The Royal Corps of Signals
The Intellegance Corps
The Army Medical Services
The Royal Army of Chaplains Department
The Army Corps OF Music
The Small Arms Corps...

 

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Organization

I am in a naval construction battalion and we are set-up like a Marine battalion. The numbers and nomenclature differentiate from the army and from other countries.
One aspect of British army structure I like is how it is regionalized. For example, The various regiments from Scotland, Wales, No. Ireland, etc. have there own identity. My grandfather was born on the Welsh border in a town called Malvern. I think he was in a unit called the welsh borders but I have to check on it. I think the welsh were the unit in the movie "Zulu" if I'm not mistaken. Our Army National Guard divisions have a regional identity but lose that when they become "federalized" into the regular army. I was wondering if the surname "Lewis" is of welsh origin (Llewelyn?). Maybe you know.

 

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A word about regiments/brigades, the JNA used the equivalent term of regiment until the structure was changed and the brigade became the smallest manouver unit. (no more division)
This means the brigade had generic AA, AT, artillery engineer etc, as opposed to the regiment that got it attached (and deteached) from divisions.

 

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The best site about divisions and OOBs of WW2 was http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/index.htm, but now it's closed.
But you can still read it using http://www.archive.org! Go to the Internet Archive, then paste the URL www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/index.htm and click "Take me back", choose the most recent date and... you can browse that site like if it's still working! The only problem is that some images and pages are missing, but not many.
I hope I helped.