Divided America Mod

[unmerged(83754)]

Okay I have this idea for a new mod where The American revolution never took place because Britain eased up on the taxes and restrictions it imposed on the colonies. Britain continue to keep the colonies under there control till about 1830's when the various separate colonies where they won there Independence. They still have strong ties to Britain and have close relations. Britain ended Slavery in the America and most Enslaved People where sent back to British colonies in Africa and Liberia. Few choose to remain due to racism. Western Expansion stopped because of Louisiana and Mexico.

Mod will be very scripted and event driven.

The Nations will be:

New York
New Jersey

Pennsylvania

Massachusetts
Providence
Connecticut
New Hampshire
Vermont (By Event)
Maine (By Event)

New England (By Event , unites New England countries together and can possibly expand to include New York and New Jersey)

North Carolina
South Carolina
*Events to Unite them into one single nation called Carolina
Tennessee (By Event)

Maryland
Delaware

Virginia
Kentucky (By Event)
West Virginia (By Event)

Georgia
Alabama (By Event)
Mississippi (By Event)

The Louisiana territory that was sold to the United States Historically is going to become an independent French Nation. It was given it Independence shortly after the Defeat of Napoleon.

Quebec is also its own independent entity winning its independence with the Help from France during the Napoleonic Wars. It can unite with Louisiana to form New France.

Canada a British Dominion will also be there.

All the Land in the Ohio river Valley and the area around the great lakes will be open to colonization and contested by the various American nations. Largely inhabited by Native Americans.

Immigration and Ethnic Groups:

Im replacing Yankee and Dixie Culture with Anglo American and Franco American culture. Immigration to these nations will mainly come from Britain,Ireland,Germany,The Netherlands and a bit from Scandinavia. While Quebec and Louisiana will receive a decent amount of French and Belgian Immigration.

Texas will not be around and Texan Culture removed. Larger Native American Populations In Lands In Louisiana with the French Population mainly Centered in Louisiana Proper.

African Minor will be replaced with Afro American pops and be very small minorities since slavery was abolished and nearly all of them returned to Africa. Im thinking about lumping all the various Native Americans into one Ethnic group simply entitled "Native Americans" .

All the nations will start out with Armies and Navies of varying strength obviously.

This is a basic overview. I will be adding more details on the back story and the various nations there populations economies and there starting positions.

Comments thoughts and suggestions?

 

[unmerged(83754)]

More Details on the Nations:

Southern Nations-

These Include Virginia with its Kentucky and West Virginia holdings.

North Carolina with its holdings in Tennessee and South Carolina.

Georgia with its holdings in Mississippi and Alabama.

The Majority of the population of the southern nations is Anglo American with very small minorities of Afro American scattered throughout the region and even fewer Native Americans.

The south's economy is agricultural and not as developed over all as the northern nations are. Its population is also smaller. But the southern Nations are more united and have less fighting between them and will united even further when the carolinas unification even fires. Carolinas start out allied and if they dont decide to unify peacefully they might just go to war. North Carolina being the strong of the two can make south carolina a puppet in that event.

Also despite there small population and lack of strong industry they have the most potential for westward expansion then any of the other Nations. They will receive a few waves of small British immigrants. most the pops will be Farmers with significant Aristocrats Officers as well. Large soldier pops as well. Goal is to eventually industrialize and make the gaps between the classes smaller and demobilize the large unneeded soldier pops.

Mainly conservative latter in the game they will suffer from revolts from socialist and communists. Mainly the poorer farmers.

Although there will be far fewer conflicts between them they suffer from High Revolt Risks due to some of there territory wishing to secede and form there own nations. (West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama)

If this happens southern countries will be in a worse position then when they started.

Unlike Quebec in the North they will not face as much of a threat from Louisiana which does not have much the desire to expand since its facing many internal problems relating to its economy and large native American populations and that it cant control its vast lands as is.

They only might come into conflict with Louisiana or Spain over some contested land in West Florida that borders the Gulf Coast that Georgia claims and latter Mississippi and Alabama.

If New France is formed its border will be less quiet as New France will seek to expand and spread French Culture.

 

[unmerged(83754)]

Central Nations-

Pennsylvania
Maryland
Delaware

Pennsylvania being the strongest of the three has claims on both Delaware and all of Maryland. It being a land lock country its important for it to gain control of these lands to gain access to the sea. It has western colonial and expansionist ambitions. Its fairly Industrialized with a decent population mainly of Anglo Americans but with significant German and Dutch Immigrant pops. It can gain waves of British German and Dutch immigration it it gains access to the sea. Pennsylvania also has claims on 2 provinces of New York one of them being Buffalo.

Maryland has claims on Delaware and needs to fight to maintain its independence from the aggressive and expansionist Pennsylvanians. Not nearly as Industrial as Pennsylvania and only a handful of British Immigrants here and there it has less potential. 100% Anglo American and no opportunities for westward expansion.

Delaware is a small puny nation that will be picked on by its bigger neighbors. It has a Anglo American Majority with significant Dutch Sweedish Finnish populations. It also has a very small Franco American population present. Making it very diverse for a small nation especially when German immigrants begin pouring in. Its main goal is to remain independent and if it holds of Maryland and Pennsylvania it might have to worry about New York when they annex New Jersey.

Pennsylvania can make them both satellites or dominions. Maryland can do the same to Delaware. other options besides complete annexation which will anger other american nations.

 

[unmerged(83754)]

New York and New Jersey

New York has great potential for expansion. The most industrially developed of the nations with the biggest population and the most immigrants. It will Get Dutch German and British Immigrants in huge waves. It has claims on all of New jersey and can make it a Satellite or dominion or simply annex it, then giving it claim to Delaware.
It starts out in a war with The Republic of Vermont who is striving for independence. It can easily defeat there small army and annex it but it will cause problems with New England Nations. Mainly New Hampshire who also had claims on it and wished to incorporate it into its territories. The Other New England Nation are mainly concerned about the expanding New York and wishes to see an independent Vermont or moreover a Vermont incorporate into a New England Nation. Annexing it will bring these problems and might lead to an early New England Unification.

It could give it Independence and renounce claims but New Hampshire will then most likely decalre war and claim it or it will eventually join a formed New England.

The player may choose to simply make it a puppet.

Things become complicated when Quebec and Canada wish to expand into this area and may use Vermont as a Catalyst for this.

It has the potential to expand westward claiming colonies in the great lakes Region.

It would like to see New England remained Divided and fractured or it will have a nearly equally powerful neighbor at its doorstep. Even a strong alliance of New England nations could hurt it. It might Choose to simply ally with them if Canadian Aggression became a problem.

It has claims on some canadian provinces aswell which might bring it into international conflicts.

New Jersey has little hope for remaining Independent but if it does it could be quite successful if it is able to ally with New York.

 

[unmerged(83754)]

New England-

Connecticut has claims on all of Providence. Small and wealthy.

Providence small nations nothing esle to say.

Massachusetts strongest of the New England Nations. has Claims on all the provinces of Maine and New Hampshire. With events to puppet or fully incorporate New hampshire into maine.

New Hampshire claims on Vermont.

All have anglo american majority and have Ducth pops here and there and German and British Immigration. Vermont has a significant Franco American Population and it can become part of New France/Quebec through events.

Very Industrialized Area when United Together. Events for the Unification of New England Unite all the New England Nations into one. Theres an event similar to the United States of central America one where they win independence again. Also events for an independence of Maine.

Vermont is a potential member if New York or New Hampshire dont gobble it up.

If united it gains cores on all of New York and New jersey and has a lot of opportunity for expansion from there.

It also faces threats from Quebec/New France and Canada in the North.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Interesting idea. At first I thought it was similar to this, though after reading it does seem different. Always nice to have more alternate mods around!

 

[unmerged(83754)]

Interesting idea. At first I thought it was similar to this, though after reading it does seem different. Always nice to have more alternate mods around!

First comment I was begining to think there was no interest. And yes they are similar but have there differences.

If anyone has any ideas, comments, or questions please post them.

I might need some help with certain modding aspects cause im very new to this.

Also outside of North America I dont plan on changing anything yet but due to the fact it is alternate history Im sure some things need to be tweaked.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Well I would suggest that the alternate history isn't just focused on America, but elsewhere also. What would be the affects of the UK if America turned out this way (did they have the finances for it? If not, what military outcome did this lead to? From there... ??).

If you need help just post what you're stuck with and someone will come along and help you figure it out no doubt.

 

[unmerged(83754)]

Well I would suggest that the alternate history isn't just focused on America, but elsewhere also. What would be the affects of the UK if America turned out this way (did they have the finances for it? If not, what military outcome did this lead to? From there... ??).

If you need help just post what you're stuck with and someone will come along and help you figure it out no doubt.

Prolly the first release wont have anything changed to the other parts of the world till i can figure out what to do or what would seem most logical.

Im thinking haiti did not win its independence and is ethier going to be a French Dependency or part of Louisiana.

Spain controls Florida but mexico is independent No texas.

Thats all I got so far

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Sounds cool!

 

[LlywelynII]

2c

Some of the colonies seemed listed in the wrong places:

• New York
  • Vermont (By Event)
  • North Northwest Territory
• New Jersey
• Pennsylvania
  • Mid-Northwest Territory
• New England (By Event , unites New England countries together and can possibly expand to include New York and New Jersey)
  • Massachusetts
    • Maine (By Event)
  • Connecticut
  • Rhode Island
  • New Hampshire
• Carolina (By Event)
  • North Carolina
    • Tennessee (By Event)
  • South Carolina
• Maryland
• Delaware
• Virginia
  • Kentucky (By Event)
  • South Northwest Territory
  • West Virginia (?)
• Georgia
  • Alabama (By Event)
  • Mississippi (By Event)
  • West Florida (By Event)

Comments.

* The South would not have gone along with emancipation. You could go with a guerilla war ending with a new British administration buying them off and the blacks working as sharecroppers, but far more likely that the guerilla war is the spark that gets the Brits to just leave them and their own massively profitable plantation investments alone.
* Maryland and Delaware were in the circuit of Philadelfy lawyers, but were Southern by culture and economy. (Possibly small enough to go along with British inducements for voluntary emancipation, though.)
* North Carolina was the weaker, poorer of the two (Charleston was the best port south of New York and the largest south of Philly), although South Carolina might've been gutted by its war or guerilla war against the British as they attempted emancipation.
* Without protective tarriffs, the North would not have industrialized at anything like the same rate. Bloodless independence would be contingent on maintaining it and a privileged place for British goods. (Can events be triggered by tarriff rates?)
* Meanwhile France couldn't've done a single thing for Quebec, and England would not have lost the Napoleonic wars or left France with an acre of land in Louisiana. There is no way Britain would've left Louisiana to the French, simply no way: it controls the outlet of all Mississippi production. They might've left it with the Spanish, to be swiftly filibustered, but it seems unlikely.
* The French lost Haiti, but came back in the 1820s: you could say they retook the nutcase colony instead of getting paid as in OTL. The real place to introduce the French into America is independent Mexico and Texas (cf. Franco-Texienne,) which (sorry, since it seems to be a thing above) would still be going independent.
* Generally, filibusters would be more of a problem. Even ignoring any effect on the independence movements in Venezuela, etc., you're still looking West Florida, Florida, Cuba, Nicaragua, the various indy parts of Mexico.
* Without the Civil War, West Virginia really would have no reason to exist, though it might show up in a Pennsylvania war.
* Pennsylvania would pwn any Massachusetts or New English claims to the Northwest Territories, though New York might take the northern sector; Virginia would lose much of the northern Ohio Basin.
* Yankee culture was Anglo-American, plus it's shorter.
* Dixie culture is distinct and appropriate for southern America.
* Some of the Western Native Americans had more or less the same style, but there were differences between the Plains Indians, Mountain Indians, etc. Part of the reason to have different ones, though, is so it feels better when you play the Indian states.

 

[Gorgo Primus]

* The South would not have gone along with emancipation. You could go with a guerilla war ending with a new British administration buying them off and the blacks working as sharecroppers, but far more likely that the guerilla war is the spark that gets the Brits to just leave them and their own massively profitable plantation investments alone.
* Maryland and Delaware were in the circuit of Philadelfy lawyers, but were Southern by culture and economy. (Possibly small enough to go along with British inducements for voluntary emancipation, though.)

The South probably would go along with it because they'd probably be industrialized and wouldn't care anymore.

I'd also suggest that Canada be independent or a collection of independent states. No reason why the Americans would peacefully get independence but not Canada.

 

[LlywelynII]

The South probably would go along with it because they'd probably be industrialized and wouldn't care anymore.

It's your story, but it does seem unrealistic to me that a British America would be allowed (or even able) to industrialize at anything approaching its historic level. Although it would be interesting to see an America where rational British interests located their textile factories near the resources (either Kentucky coal or Southern cotton) and the North exists mostly just for transshipment...

 

[Gorgo Primus]

Canada didn't have any of these problems and they had plenty of slaves. Why? Because the UK built industries fairly and evenly across upper and lower Canada.

Why wouldn't they do the same in the 13 Colonies?

 

[LlywelynII]

Canada didn't have any of these problems and they had plenty of slaves. Why? Because

...Canadian slavery wasn't anything like as profitable as cotton, or as completely integrated into the culture.

[edit: removed section here on Canadian industrialization v. American North, since I realized you meant your reply to show the British would industrialize the South more equitably with the American North. That might give the South more of an opportunity to win any proposed war, but it seems inevitable that what (sub-historical-level) immigration occurred in the colonies would still favor the North and it was that reservoir of cheap labor and comparative advantage and not Southern indolence or lack of business acumen that made most of the difference between the regions.]

Although, just saw this article on the Quebec Act of 1774: be kinda fun seeing the effects of Franco-Canadians owning the Northwest Territory, regardless of New England claims. Not sure how much it was a punitive response to obnoxious Massachussettians and how much it was the most rational course of action for England to take, though, so it might not show up depending on the back story here.

 

[unmerged(83754)]

Some of the colonies seemed listed in the wrong places:

• New York
  • Vermont (By Event)
  • North Northwest Territory
• New Jersey
• Pennsylvania
  • Mid-Northwest Territory
• New England (By Event , unites New England countries together and can possibly expand to include New York and New Jersey)
  • Massachusetts
    • Maine (By Event)
  • Connecticut
  • Rhode Island
  • New Hampshire
• Carolina (By Event)
  • North Carolina
    • Tennessee (By Event)
  • South Carolina
• Maryland
• Delaware
• Virginia
  • Kentucky (By Event)
  • South Northwest Territory
  • West Virginia (?)
• Georgia
  • Alabama (By Event)
  • Mississippi (By Event)
  • West Florida (By Event)

Comments.

* The South would not have gone along with emancipation. You could go with a guerilla war ending with a new British administration buying them off and the blacks working as sharecroppers, but far more likely that the guerilla war is the spark that gets the Brits to just leave them and their own massively profitable plantation investments alone.
* Maryland and Delaware were in the circuit of Philadelfy lawyers, but were Southern by culture and economy. (Possibly small enough to go along with British inducements for voluntary emancipation, though.)
* North Carolina was the weaker, poorer of the two (Charleston was the best port south of New York and the largest south of Philly), although South Carolina might've been gutted by its war or guerilla war against the British as they attempted emancipation.
* Without protective tarriffs, the North would not have industrialized at anything like the same rate. Bloodless independence would be contingent on maintaining it and a privileged place for British goods. (Can events be triggered by tarriff rates?)
* Meanwhile France couldn't've done a single thing for Quebec, and England would not have lost the Napoleonic wars or left France with an acre of land in Louisiana. There is no way Britain would've left Louisiana to the French, simply no way: it controls the outlet of all Mississippi production. They might've left it with the Spanish, to be swiftly filibustered, but it seems unlikely.
* The French lost Haiti, but came back in the 1820s: you could say they retook the nutcase colony instead of getting paid as in OTL. The real place to introduce the French into America is independent Mexico and Texas (cf. Franco-Texienne,) which (sorry, since it seems to be a thing above) would still be going independent.
* Generally, filibusters would be more of a problem. Even ignoring any effect on the independence movements in Venezuela, etc., you're still looking West Florida, Florida, Cuba, Nicaragua, the various indy parts of Mexico.
* Without the Civil War, West Virginia really would have no reason to exist, though it might show up in a Pennsylvania war.
* Pennsylvania would pwn any Massachusetts or New English claims to the Northwest Territories, though New York might take the northern sector; Virginia would lose much of the northern Ohio Basin.
* Yankee culture was Anglo-American, plus it's shorter.
* Dixie culture is distinct and appropriate for southern America.
* Some of the Western Native Americans had more or less the same style, but there were differences between the Plains Indians, Mountain Indians, etc. Part of the reason to have different ones, though, is so it feels better when you play the Indian states.

Thanks for the information. Im surprised people have taken interest in this mod I kinda gave up on it. If you want to help I can use it its just kind of me working on it now and my progress has been slow.

 

[LlywelynII]

Thanks for the information. Im surprised people have taken interest in this mod I kinda gave up on it. If you want to help I can use it its just kind of me working on it now and my progress has been slow.

Well, I had some free time around the Chinese New Year, but everything's about to get crazy again, plus I'm working on that Texas stuff.

But you can always post first drafts or requests and see who stops by to pick it up.

Just saw this today and thought of you:

[click for larger version]​

I still like the idea of a more southerly Quebec, but this fits better into your plan: A Proclamation of 1763 where the King doesn't sign off Transappalachia to the savages does create a world where the colonists are more reconciled with the Motherland. The Motherland would be pissed at the increased expense from the inevitable wars, but that's just another fun dynamic to play with (and a good reason for increasing, peaceable devolvement.)

See also:

• Charlotina, this world's NW Territory
• The awesome Vandalia in West Virginia and Ciskentucky
• The if anything more awesome Transylvania in Transkentucky & north Tennessee
• The pro-Union stronghold of Franklin
• Wiki doesn't have much (& Maine's page lies about how long this lasted: Dave Rumsey lists this after independence,) but Main was only the southwest province: the eastern two were Sagadahock
• The freebooting West Florida
• Sideways Mississippi (The history of Alabama article gives the section north of West Florida the name 'Illinois Country,' which can't be right, can it?)

Also cool.

Also funny: Georgia wanted to call sideways Mississippi "Bourbon" County but tried to sell the same land to multiple people (meanwhile Washington might've named Tennessee Mississippi.)

 

[Serek000]

What about an event-created (or releaseable) Chesapeake? It could be a union of Maryland, Delaware, and the North-Easternmost bits of Virginia.

 

[LlywelynII]

What about an event-created (or releaseable) Chesapeake? It could be a union of Maryland, Delaware, and the North-Easternmost bits of Virginia.

Were they really that close?

And Virginia was always pretty territorial... Maybe if Pennsylvania had their backs?

 

[Serek000]

Were they really that close?

And Virginia was always pretty territorial... Maybe if Pennsylvania had their backs?

The bit of Virginia along the Chesapeake had more in common with Maryland than it did with the rest of the state. It was largely fishing based, as opposed to tobacco farms, like further on inland.