Diversity: Overpowered?
- Thread starter Cruxador
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As far as I understand it, materialist have better affinity for robopops, and spiritualists have less? (Not sure if materialists get better robio-tech or less technophobia or what, but I think spiritualist pops get less happiness from sharing a planet with sentient robots).
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I think it was that Spiritualists have psychic / telepathy stuff, while Materialists have either cybernetics or robot POPs, I'm not sure which.
I think you can get both as either, but your ethos effects your chance of getting certain techs. The more materialist you are, the more likely you are to get things to do with robots or cyborgs, the more spiritualist you are, the more likely you are to get psionic armies or other 'weird' things like mind control. There was some mention of spiritualist pops not caring about robots cause they don't have souls, so I imagine it might impact on how you react to AI Rights. If you are highly spiritualist, you could consider it an affront to have man-made machines treated as equal to god-made tentacle-beats/humans/etc., whereas if you think that sentient life is basically just an advanced organic machine, then a metal machine is little different to a flesh-and-blood one so the logic of AI Rights might be less abrasive for you.
Everybody, I think. Not sure if it has any relation to any ethos, at least from what I can remember being said from the streams.
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From what I understood, everyone can research robot pops. Spiritualists get psionic powers, while Materialists get cybernetic enhancements, which probably gives some of the benefits of robot pops without the risk of an AI rebellion.
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My point was that isolationist species which keep to themselves are not very well represented at the moment. They're not xenophiles (don't want a lot to do with other races), but nor are they necessarily xenophobes (on the contrary, they might be very peaceful, but just reclusive). As I said, you could just pick other ethos options, and leave the xenophilia/xenophobia one on neutral.
However I think that eventually Paradox ought to rework ethos choices so we can pick more of them (there should probably *be* more of them also), because it'll allow us to further define our species' identity, which adds more variety and so forth.
And when they do, they can rebalance options as per OPs point, if there is an imbalance.
See. overall, I think this whole thread is a bit early to be honest. We'll be able to work out whether some choices are "the right choices" after we've actually played the game, at which point we will be informed enough to press the devs to balance things more. At the moment it's all speculation.
Ah, thank you, I got it the other way around, that you said that there can't be xenophile pacifists because if they are pacifists then they won't go to war and are by definition isolationists which is not xenophilia.
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Hey @mocoman2001, did you miss this part of my statement? Or do you characterize California as "Xenophilic"?
Yes I think so? But anyone can get robots. Except maybe fanatic spiritualists, I think?
here is my take: yes, diversity is overpowered. this is a game about space empires, maximizing our yield on all planets in your space is sort of how you do it
but adding races to your empire isnt the only way, just the most dangerous. you could opt for some simple, nonsentient robotics, at a cost of 2 energy per, the maintenence is steep, but you dont have to worry about rebellion
you could also terraform planets or genetically engineer your people.
all these choices come with some inherent risk, but by far the riskiest and cheapest is being the space austro-hungarian empire. conquer weaker neighbors, uplift as many races as possible, and have open borders will all equivalent empires in your space. if this sounds like an awesome idea, try playing as them in vicky 2, youll understand why it isnt. you should, if you are playing xenophillic, have alien pops in your empire, but even if your strategy revolves around xenophillia, youll have to be somewhat selective. what do you think happens when you conquer a fanatic pacifist race that lives on literally the exact opposite planet type as you? you think they are going to be able to integrate at all? that their ethos will change, living in a 100% homogeneous society with none of your primary pops? probably not. same with conquering repugnant fast breeders. ew, get that away from me. these races are better suited as slaves.
youll want to be conquering, uplifting, and accepting the migrants of races that have similar homeworlds or ethos(one or the other) to your other, accepted pops, so they can integrate sucessfully. otherwise, youll have issues.
but adding races to your empire isnt the only way, just the most dangerous. you could opt for some simple, nonsentient robotics, at a cost of 2 energy per, the maintenence is steep, but you dont have to worry about rebellion
you could also terraform planets or genetically engineer your people.
all these choices come with some inherent risk, but by far the riskiest and cheapest is being the space austro-hungarian empire. conquer weaker neighbors, uplift as many races as possible, and have open borders will all equivalent empires in your space. if this sounds like an awesome idea, try playing as them in vicky 2, youll understand why it isnt. you should, if you are playing xenophillic, have alien pops in your empire, but even if your strategy revolves around xenophillia, youll have to be somewhat selective. what do you think happens when you conquer a fanatic pacifist race that lives on literally the exact opposite planet type as you? you think they are going to be able to integrate at all? that their ethos will change, living in a 100% homogeneous society with none of your primary pops? probably not. same with conquering repugnant fast breeders. ew, get that away from me. these races are better suited as slaves.
youll want to be conquering, uplifting, and accepting the migrants of races that have similar homeworlds or ethos(one or the other) to your other, accepted pops, so they can integrate sucessfully. otherwise, youll have issues.
So who's doing the oppressing in Mexico today? Who's doing the oppressing in India today? Who's doing the oppressing in China today? Who's doing the oppressing in Africa today? and on and on....
There are certain parts of the world that will always be a mess, and the oppression comes from their own people....their own culture even!
Today in the U.S. there are many people that rise out of the ghetto, and people that rise out of the hum-drum middle class (Like....hmm, the lefty hero Steve Jobs). There is every opportunity to not be a dirt bag here in the US, but many still choose it.
Blame others all you want...
When did india get its Independence? hmm, and how was there economy before that? exploitative perhaps. I am sure gun boat diplomacy had nothing to do with china's ills before communism.
and don't even get me started on Africa. The artificially created arms race by Europeans that pitted African kingdoms to fight each other for slaves before there conquest was horrific. You choices were take European guns and enslave people, or be enslaved your self. Then you had the there direct conquest, and horrible exploitation, and there still plenty of people alive who can remember a world where most of Africa was carved up by European powers.
I am sorry old colonial territories are not healing fast enough for you, but that's there fault, and there fault alone, because centuries of European exploitation, racism, and purging has 0 effect on the world today.
As I said, the problems with Mexico are being directly caused by the war on drugs. They send us there drugs, we send them our guns, and it creates a horrible shit storm south of the border. If you decriminalize drugs, and treat the mental health issues related to as mental health issues, instead of criminal issues, then the black market that grew up around it would wither away and die.
Numerous OT posts deleted. Some people just can't stay on topic, can they? Take that stuff to OT if you really must.
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