You should be able to force evolve your own species to be able to live on different planets, over time the should be able to break off as separate species.
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Diversity: Overpowered?
- Thread starter Cruxador
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Wasn't that exact thing in the game? I.E. your pops editing their genes to become more tolerant to the planet type they are living on, thereby creating a subspecies? If you want 100% purity you are just going to have to accept that you won't have massive populations (remember we are talking in terms of billions here) on every planet in your empire. If the planet has resources you want to exploit you can always build a mining station.
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Most Koreans and Chinese really don't care, particularly if we are talking about how individuals view other individuals. It's like how the Middle East gets a lot of attention in Europe, but all in all the average joe European really doesn't care about the random Middle Easterner who walks in to buy a drink.
Besides, it's two countries out of the world, and you don't ask a Chinese or Korea if a Japanese person hates everyone, you ask a Japanese person, and most will be inclined to give a positive opinion about many people. The argument still stands to compare a xenophobic civ in-game more to the likes of modern or feudal Japan than imperial Japan or Nazi Germany.
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I THINK (don't quote me on this because I can't remember the source) genetic engineering technology was described as being able to do exactly this.
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I don't understand, why are you making a suggestion for something that's already confirmed to be in the game? DD #14 explicitly described what you wanted.
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i think the benefits of diversity are there to balance out warmongering that is so prevalent in 4x games
No. Warmongering is one of the fastest and most efficient way to become more diverse.
In MP games though, Federation would be best for diverse tech specialization, though the potentially exploitable strategy of uber-specialization is largely neutralized by the random tech card system.
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It occurs to me that maybe Xenophobe and Xenophile should be perhaps have the Isolationism versus Interventionism (not exactly the word I am looking for but close) bit forked off of them? So the difference between an Empire that "Must Kill the Demons xenos" versus an entire species of "Get of my lawn!" aliens. Or something similar to that, it just seems to be that the Xenophobe/Xenophile ethe(a) might be better represented with some of their aspects spun off.
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If hairs are split on every single Ethos, you'll end up with 50 of them, and all 50 will be different for every player. A game like this needs to paint things in broad strokes.
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I feel we tend to focus a bit too much on the individual ethos at face value and overanalyze their flavor description, probably because they're the only thing we have actual stats and solid info on. But AI behaviors, which are formed by any particular combination of ethos, are supposed to be the main driving force of AI factions. Fanatic Xenophobic + ANYTHING combo tend to be the PURGE variety, while Xenophobic + Fanatic Pacifist should result in the extremely reclusive isolationist variety that doesn't intend to wipe everyone else out and just want to be left alone. Sure, you won't enjoy the modifier bonus of Xenophobic if you refuse to use slaves, but that's not a huge price to pay for RP.
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I was making a case for one. And I agree on broad strokes, I just think it is too broad in this one case. And I don't think I am splitting hairs to propose that maybe the Ethos system is too broad in this specific case.
Good point.
In fairness, collectivist and individualist could be split into collectivist and individualist and hierarchical and egalitarian. This would actually be pretty convenient because 4 axis with 3 points, and 2 for fanatic is elegant, but there's no good way to extend it to 5 axes. 6, however is well served by having 6 axes and 4 points.
The suggestion for splitting collective/individual (copied from original thread - ignore out of context bits):
So here's a proposed solution: Separate collectivist and individualist into it's two component axis:
Hierarchical vs. Egalitarian (government power and ideological axis)
Hierarchical unlocks autocracies, Extremist locks all the democracies.
Egalitarian unlocks democracies, extremist locks all autocracies.
Hierarchical gets bonus spy defense, increased slavery tolerance. Egalitarian gets bonus happiness, reduced slavery tolerance.
Collectivist vs. Individualist (economic and ideological axis)
Collectivist unlocks despotic hegemony (always - cannot be re-locked).
Individualist unlocks plutocratic oligarchy (always - cannot be re-locked).
Individualist gets increased ethics tolerance, bonus energy credits. Collectivist gets reduced ethics shift, bonus minerals.
What do you guys think?
Wrt 5 axes meaning points get spread more thinly, maybe give 4 points and make fanatic cost 3? Or maybe make it limit 1 fanatical?
Btw all the ethics axes are ( ... and ideological )
But yeah 6 axes with 4 points could work. Not sure if fanatic should be 2 points or 3 in that scenario.
So we'd have:
spiritualist/materialist
collectivist/individualist
xenophobic/xenophilic
hierarchical/egalitarian
pacifist/militarist
Isolationist/Interventionist
with 4 points to spend between the 6 axes.
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The species shouldn't be changed to accommodate alien planets. Alien planets should be changed to accommodate the species.
What would an isolationist xenophile be like?
* The Alpharian Republic believe themselves to have created the ultimate and perfect society. They believe it unfair that some aliens have the bad fortune to be born in other, lesser empires though, so they actively encourage immigration, so that everyone might know the joy of belonging to their great republic. They look down on other empire and see intervening in their problems to be beneath them. Their solution to any crisis is to accept refugees, but they will not send aid.
* The United Etan Kingdoms are a nation on the edge of civilized space. They control large amounts of space uncontested, and this, combined with their slow natural birth rate, means that the population is incredibly thinly spread. A significant amount of their population growth comes from immigrants and so they have become tolerant of outsiders and aliens of many species; it is widely held that a person's value comes from their mind and their emotion, rather than their physical characteristics. That said, they are separated from most of the rest of the galaxy by a wide arm of dark space, sharing a border with only a couple of smaller empires coreward. Their physical isolation has bred in them an ideological isolationism, and they do not intervene in outside politics, believing any war, crisis or threat to be far from their borders, and hence not their problem.
* The Sigman Empire is a large empire near the galactic core. While it is a large empire, covering space native to several species, and was in the past openly warlike and expansionist, since the last great civil war, the war of seven kings, the empire has begun looking inwards to it's own affairs. Intervention by several outside powers (generally in support of losing contenders, but also one incident of significant ill repute, in which the forces of the Klanxian People's Republic changed sides as soon as their candidate began to win, in an effort to keep the situation destabilized in preparation for a subsequent, failed, invasion) lead to a general dislike among both the populous and the administration of outside intervention in internal politics. Within a few generations it became common wisdom that matters of internal succession were just that - internal, and the onus to instigate government change was on the people under that government, not of neighboring states. As this view became popular and more extreme, the Empire slowly stopped engaging in diplomacy with the outside world, eventually becoming a neutral grey zone which neighboring states had to work, ally and war around. Those who made the mistake of sending fleets through their space would see them destroyed by the Sigman border enforcement, but after their retreat or destruction, no further reprisals would follow. The peoples of the Sigman empire are varied and tolerant of aliens, but regard outside political interference with disgust.
What do you think?
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That would make more sense than my suggestion. Maybe Paradox might see about expanding the Ethos system in a future DLC/Expansion.
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No interest in the world beyond their borders, but love producing their own diversity through genetic engineering, intentionally engineering AI with weird architectures, creating simulated worlds, etc.
I'm picturing a sort of society that thinks everyone else in the galaxy is a racist patriachal shitlord whom shouldn't be spoken to in case you catch "h8 memes", so they just descend into an echo chamber of telling each other how great other cultures are, even though they hate every other culture that actually exists outside their own Empire's hugbox.
Basically Tumblr with a space program.
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Late 19th century America is probably another good example of an isolationist xenophile nation.
"Give me your poor, your hungry, your wretched masses yearning to breathe free... but don't bother me with trivialities like what's going on beyond our borders."
"Give me your poor, your hungry, your wretched masses yearning to breathe free... but don't bother me with trivialities like what's going on beyond our borders."
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