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Is the "expel ethnoreligious minorities to this colony" an in-game decision that a country can take? (Sorry, I haven't really actually played EU4.) If so, why are all the Brazilian (Catalan) and New Venetian (French) leaders showing up with Italian names?
One imagines that the metropolitan governments actually trusting the minorities enough to govern themselves is not part of the expulsion bargain…
Fair, fair...
But who knows. Brazil is independent now, maybe they'll start electing some of their own Catalan leaders. Or maybe the small minority of Italians will remain a privileged upper class.
It will be very interesting to watch develop. If you follow the Benedict Anderson school of thought, this is exactly the sort of thing that will birth nationalism when it does start to kick off.
I can see it now. Several hundred years in the future, a young Brazilian Catalan leader garners the support of his people in overthrowing the Italian ruling class, and Brazil becomes an emergent world power by taking over swaths of South America--er, South York.
It is, to be sure, an exceedingly odd situation.
Incidentally, one thing that I’ve been wondering about is the slave trade. I can't remember what the state of west Africa is like atm, but if there's no triangular trade then the whole history of the New world is obviously going to be much different.
You know, that's a great point. The Maghreb sultanate might be too powerful for the Europeans to take slaves from it. They may have to go further afield, perhaps to the southwest of Africa, where OTL Angola and Namibia are.
Hell, the Maghreb might start its own non-triangular slave trade, given their New World territories.
The Berbers, of course, took white Christian slaves from all over, as well as other, non-Christian whites and Arabs. My (very limited) understanding is that a lot of those sold on ended up in Ottoman territories, but here there’s absolutely nothing to suggest they couldn’t go to the colonies.
If Maghreb controls most of west Africa as well, they are going to be the slaving power. The Europeans might be looking at expanded systems of indenture if they really want to get in on the act, or of course there is the possibility of enslaving the indigenous peoples in *America itself.
No real prospect of anything being less grim than OTL, I don’t think, but definitely very different.
Aye.
Yup, you can expel minorities to your colonies. I believe it would be just like what DenseyBlair said about a minority of Italian ruling class. The game says Sinibaldo de Castro is Catalan.
I am not too familiar with the names but it seems there were indeed Catalan men named Sinibaldo in RL? Or maybe it is just a popular name? But lore-wise, the idea of an Italian-origin ruling class minority is much more fun
Sinibaldo de Mas - Wikipedia
I agree. I think lore-wise the Europeans (and the Chinese) are making Native Yorkers their slaves while Maghreb Sultanate (which controls most of West and South Africa) and not to mention the Sultanate of Andalusia having colonies in Central African coastline; it's safe to assume that these two are enslaving sub-Saharan peoples. Since Native Yorkers will be dying from new diseases and other reasons just like the OTL Native Americans, I guess Europeans would start buying African slaves from Maghreb or Andalusia.
Either way, nothing less grim than OTL. That said, I believe the African slaves in the New World would mostly be from Central or South Africa. West Africa has been core territories of Maghreb and its ally Akan for too long, the people are Muslim and many West African tribes are recognized by the Maghreb Sultanate (there were Arab and Muslim slaves as well OTL but West African slaves would be less in numbers due to these factors).
1690s
"The English Kingdom of Haiti launched multiple wars against Andalusian colonies of Khasiba and Andalusian York. By late 1690s, both Khasiba and Andalusian York had ceased to exist. The survivors of the Haitian invasion went further inland to establish a new colonial nation named New Andalusia. A scholar named Abdul Ibn Muhammad became its first viceroy."
"Mexico was the weakest among the former Chinese colonies and Pewshwa Qiyuan Mao wanted his nation to be strong. In 1697, he decided to invade the Mixtec in order to expand his republic. Two years into the war, everyone in the region was surprised at the arrival of a grand armada from Orissa that disembarked nearly 50,000 soldiers. At first, everyone assumed the Tamil Empire of Orissa, as the strongest Hindu nation in the world, was there to help a fellow Hindu state. Instead, the army of Orissa started taking over Mexican territories and hunting down Mao's forces."
"This decade the French under Emperor Valeran IX Bajmoc-Munchsmunster declare even more one-sided wars against their weaker neighbors."
"The Manchus had been looking to incorporate Korea back into their khanate. The extremely careful Khan Abatai Yehe Nara waited for a perfect opportunity. Now class, you might remember from our previous class that the Japanese waged war against the Ainu, who were supported by the Ming Empire. Against all odds, the Japanese won the war and they not only annexed Ainu but also managed to make Korea their tributary state. As soon as the Japanese had signed their peace treaty with the Ming Empire, the Manchus invaded Korea. This had been the perfect opportunity. The Japanese had lost many men in their victories against the Ming dynasty and Korea was swiftly overrun by Manchurian forces and their Cuman allies from Gobi-Altai."
"The alliance between Andalusia and Maghreb grew even stronger during this decade as the Galindids joined Sultan Mubashir X Timurid in his many wars."
"The Kingdom of Vladimir was a nation of Uralic peoples and one of the few nations in Europe during the era whose primary culture was not French or Greek; although even it did have a large Greek minority of refugees from the ever-declining Byzantine Empire that had also brought the Orthodox Christian faith. In 1690s, it fought two defensive wars against two powerful French kingdoms: Lithuania and Sweden. Fortunately for the people of Vladimir, the Orthodox Nogai Horde was willing to fight their wars."
Lore-wise, both the Uralic peoples and the Nogai Horde converted to Orthodox Christianity as large number of Greek refugees from the declining ERE arrived in their territories. Besides, most of the territory that Valdimir and Nogai now control were under Byzantium at one point (you can see the ERE around the Caucasus in the map).
Yedisan is the only other non-French or non-Greek nation in Europe proper besides Valdimir and Andalusia. It is...let me check...Orthodox Christian (okay Greek refugees and ERE territory at one point) and Tajik for some reason. I swear Yedisan was also Greek at some point, no idea how they even became Tajik. At least for Timurids now being Uzbek instead of Armenian like they were in CK3 or Persian at EU4 start date can be explained by tag-shifting.
I feel like the Haitians are either paying the Sultan of Andalusia huge sums of money or secretly blackmailing him or something. Dude keeps declaring all these random wars against Native Yorker nations and weaker states in Europe and Africa instead of fighting against the ones who have eaten up two of his colonies by now.
Yedisan is the only other non-French or non-Greek nation in Europe proper besides Valdimir and Andalusia. It is...let me check...Orthodox Christian (okay Greek refugees and ERE territory at one point) and Tajik for some reason. I swear Yedisan was also Greek at some point, no idea how they even became Tajik. At least for Timurids now being Uzbek instead of Armenian like they were in CK3 or Persian at EU4 start date can be explained by tag-shifting.
I feel like the Haitians are either paying the Sultan of Andalusia huge sums of money or secretly blackmailing him or something. Dude keeps declaring all these random wars against Native Yorker nations and weaker states in Europe and Africa instead of fighting against the ones who have eaten up two of his colonies by now.
Since we are entering 18th Century now, gotta ask again who your favs are. I would pick the Timurids. They are the No 1 power and have the largest army in the world but not just because of that.
If you go back to the CK3 era, you might remember that the nation that is now what it is was founded by Armenians revolting against the Eastern Roman Empire, which was the most powerful state in the world back then and not an ever-declining entity that it is now. The Armenians started conquering territories in Persia and converted to Islam and by the time EU4 began, the nation was mostly Persian. The Armenian Balgarsko-Abhar (I believe that was the name) dynasty became Timurid due to their marriage with Transoxiana (lore-wise, the one of the Armenian kings took his mother's dynasty and I still have no idea how to explain Timur, who never existed in CK3 era, here). After forming the Timurid Empire, the nation became Uzbek but still recognizes Persians and Armenians living in its borders. And the Timurid dynasty now controls what once used to Armenia, Transoxiana, Andalusia, Bengal and a few more Muslim states.
In my view, the Timurids are the real Rome or Rum and Persia and Turan and Greater Armenia at the same time
If you go back to the CK3 era, you might remember that the nation that is now what it is was founded by Armenians revolting against the Eastern Roman Empire, which was the most powerful state in the world back then and not an ever-declining entity that it is now. The Armenians started conquering territories in Persia and converted to Islam and by the time EU4 began, the nation was mostly Persian. The Armenian Balgarsko-Abhar (I believe that was the name) dynasty became Timurid due to their marriage with Transoxiana (lore-wise, the one of the Armenian kings took his mother's dynasty and I still have no idea how to explain Timur, who never existed in CK3 era, here). After forming the Timurid Empire, the nation became Uzbek but still recognizes Persians and Armenians living in its borders. And the Timurid dynasty now controls what once used to Armenia, Transoxiana, Andalusia, Bengal and a few more Muslim states.
In my view, the Timurids are the real Rome or Rum and Persia and Turan and Greater Armenia at the same time
Toussaint L'Ouverture would be proud of that Haiti (although he'd have to overlook the whole English settler thing…)
meanwhile, France seems historically fated to become the European military mega power by the end of the 17th century. Way to re-establish a bit of historical determinacy, Valeran Bajmoc-Munchmucnhster
I reckon my favourite nation has been Ming. the fact that it did the Renaissance and then industrialised, and has also become one of the premier colonial powers, has just completely rewired this tl away from our own history in a way that has been fascinating to think about.
meanwhile, France seems historically fated to become the European military mega power by the end of the 17th century. Way to re-establish a bit of historical determinacy, Valeran Bajmoc-Munchmucnhster
I reckon my favourite nation has been Ming. the fact that it did the Renaissance and then industrialised, and has also become one of the premier colonial powers, has just completely rewired this tl away from our own history in a way that has been fascinating to think about.
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1700s
"Compared to the great powers such as the Delhi Sultanate, the Tamil Empire of Orissa and the Tamil Sultanate of Bengal, the Tamil Kingdom of Maru was a minor power allied to another minor power Bihar. However, this proved to be a blessing in disguise as Maru was not strong enough to declare war against any of its neighbors; which meant an era of peace. The only times Maru ever went to war was during times when it was required to help its distant allies in the Chinese Khanate of Xi Xia. Scientists, philosophers and writers from these great Indian powers, and also from rest of Asia, traveled to the prestigious universities of Maru and the court of the philosopher Maharaja Jayabahu XI to discuss the merits of tolerance, scientific method and betters laws to govern the society. And thus, the Enlightenment began in Maru once the 18th Century started. The ideas quickly spread of neighboring Bihar, which was an ally of Maru after all, and the arguments were made to spread the values of Enlightenment to all corners of the world."
"As the 18th century began, it became increasingly obvious that the Ming Empire was collapsing. It has lost one war after another. First to its former colonies that got their independence, then to the Japanese, then to the Delhi Sultanate (which claimed all former lands once held by the Tibetan Hindu Kingdom of Pagan belonged to it by the right of conquest) and then to the Chinese Khanate of Xi Xia. However, Khan Taksi II Seok of the Manchus would be the one to put the nail on the coffin for the Ming dynasty when he claimed the Mandate of Heaven for himself. After a quick victory, he was crowned the Emperor of China on 1707."
"And now the Emperor of China, Taksi II Seok considered lands held by the Chinese Khanate of Xi Xia to be rightfully his and declared war."
"As 18th Century began, the Maghreb Sultanate went to war against the Xiu people, the most powerful Native Yorker nation of the era. On 2 July 1706, the colonial nation of Maghrebi Mexico was established on conquered Xiu territories with a former judge named Lubb Alami as the first viceroy."
"On 2 September 1707, Britannic Cascadia became the newest colony of the French Empire of Britannia with Rodrigo Gloucester as its first governor. This was important for the empire as Canada and Thirteen Colonies were now independent."
"Six days after the 18th Century started, both Canada and the Thirteen Colonies declared their independence war against the French Empire of Britannia. The First War of Independence had been lost due to the mistake of not seeking support from foreign powers. In the Second War of Independence, the rebels actively sought support of every rival of Britannia. While most others provided diplomatic support, only the Maghreb Sultanate was willing to fight against Britannia. Orsonia and later on, the newly formed Britannic Cascadia, remained loyal to the crown. Colonial troops from Granada Al-Jadida, Peru, Al-Fidiya, Maghrebi York and the newly established Maghrebi Mexico arrived to help the armies of Canada and the Thirteen Colonies while mainland Maghrebi army landed in the British Isles. By the end of the decade, even a mighty empire such as Britannia was forced to recognize the independence of Canada and Thirteen Colonies after heavy fighting. A general named Orson III Bonaparte, who had led the Canadian forces in the independence war, became the first King of Canada."
"The Thirteen Colonies, no longer colonies of the French Empire of Britannia, changed their name to Florida; a name derived from the Latin word 'flowery' to refer to the region's abundance of flowers. Orson II de Foix, from the same French dynasty that ruled Sweden, was crowned the first King of Florida."
"Inspired by the successful independence of the former Chinese colonies, Brazil and now Canada and Florida; the mostly Orthodox French people of Nuova Venetia declared their 2nd War of Independence as well on 11 February 1706. The rebellion leader Aimert della Rovere was unfortunately naïve and did not seek the support of any foreign power. However, the Kingdom of Italy was even weaker with an army that even more weaker. This war was brief and the Italian army that landed in North York was easily routed by della Rovere's men. The newly independent Orthodox French republic was called Louisiana by the international community and the origin of the name is still confusing and debated."
"More territories were stripped away from the Xiu people when the Tamil Empire of Orissa attacked immediately after the armies of Maghreb Sultanate left. On 2 August 1708, the inspiring military general Kalyanachandra Vansa was appointed the first sadr of Orssian Mexico, which is also known as Mexica Nadu. However, Vansa would later be known for his cruel policies against the native peoples of the region."
"Even into the 18th Century, the problems for the Byzantine Empire was the same and grew even worse."
"The French Empire of Britannia was humiliated and weakened by the loss of its powerful colonies. And it became any easy prey for its neighbors due to its weakness. No different than what had happened to the Eastern Roman Empire, the Empire of East Francia and the Ming Empire."
"Blocked by the powerful alliance between the Delhi Sultanate and the Tamil Empire of Orissa from expanding into the Indian subcontinent, the Tamil Sultanate of Bengal increasingly sought to expand eastwards. Even though it did not share any land borders, Ming was an easy target. The Ming dynasty had lost everything. Their colonies in North York, tributary states such as Korea and Ainu to the Japanese, territories to the Delhi Sultanate and the Chinese Khanate of Xi Xia, the Mandate of Heaven to the Manchurians, their prestige, their status as a great power and now even their army to the massive rebellions everywhere. When the Bengal Sultanate launched its invasion, the Ming dynasty could only muster a force of 2,000 men and even that was just the royal guards and soldiers from their North Yorker vassal Tlapanec."
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