Dispersed industry & Concentrated industry

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Gerar_doorlock

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1st 100% agreed
2nd depends on weather you can counter them with aircraft yourself which is made much easier with concentrated
3rd simply build variants whenever you switch to a new tank/aircraft type and you get the best of both



because of the limited research slots you can only have a limited ammount of equipment always up to date the rest will just be outdated equipment produced for longer.
only for the equipment you keep up to date is there any doubt weather dispersed is better. but since equipment comes in 3 year intervals except for med tanks with 2 years and concentrated produces far more in that 3 year gap concentrated will yield far more equipment compared to dispersed.



they nerfed it because it was such a no brainer.
2nd you need someone cooping then and checking every air region ,because 10 seconds of strat bombing will bomb the hell out of state if you go concentrated.
3Rd you may need more than 500exp to upgrade stuff or you may not have all the exp for a year ( Cas 2 in 38, air exp 40)

It's all about whether you want a lot of guns or better guns, and the gap between tanks for Germany is approx 330 days + 100ish days to get ultimate Panther variant

So allies are almost 100% concentrated, Germany and Italy are like 75% dispersed
But it is all about pace of games and individual strategies
 

Secret Master

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Lots of interesting discussion here. I'd like to address some points:

Test show that while dispersed do get an early lead that lead is not all that big and concentrated just dominate when lines are at 100% efficiency. Every test I know of show that dispered while holding a lead for around a year to a year and a half (maybe even 2 years) never have much of a lead in terms of raw quantity and then both lines hit peak efficiency concentrated just role away in terms of raw quantity.

And raw quantity is what production lines are about.

This is basically how I've run the math in my games. Not all countries benefit from concentrated in all situations, but if you plan your game around it (and you will not be bombed a lot), it reaps dividends.

Given the time it takes to reach 100% efficiency, it only actually makes sense to take concentrated when you're going to be building mostly the same stuff for the entire game,

This is really important. For the reason Denkt posts below:

One strategy is to jump over tech levels in favor of other research and in such case you may be stuck with low tech stuff for a while. Like you ignore infantry weapon research between 1936-1941 or so and then just tech straight to equipment 3. It depend on you country's situation, like you may need infantry but they don't need to be well equiped in such case it may make sense to keep producing low tech weapon but save your research on more important stuff.

It works like this with tech NFs, too.

So, let's say that I'm going to spam tech and NFs to get 1944 fighters and bombers as the UK (by 1940). You could just run those production line with crappy 1936 planes even when you research the 1940 fighter. Then you jump to 1944 fighters with Supermarine, dump 500 XP into them before you even start production, then swap your lines over.

Then you just ignore them for the rest of the war. The only time they aren't at full efficiency is when you raise your industry tech.

You do the same thing with strategic bombers.

For other countries, I often to the same thing with ART II. Once I get ART II, I might delay (or even never research) ART III. Those production lines stay running for years and years.

Support equipment, while not that important, is an obvious candidate for benefiting from concentrated industry.

German tanks are a different animal entirely. Dispersed might make a lot of sense for Germany, even if you don't care about strategic bombing (which you should care about in many cases).

I've also used the same technique with CAS. I'll have the same X number of factories on the same model of CAS for maybe four to five years. 1936 CAS, while not great, can be produced in great enough numbers to make a huge difference. You keep that 1936 CAS line running for years, and you'll have plenty of CAS. (I find numbers make a huge difference with CAS.)

Denkt points out infantry equipment, but I'd like to add that, due to losses, there are times you may even want to keep producing Infantry Kit I when you research higher techs to make good on equipment losses before swapping over.

To be honest, over the past year, I've gotten more and more convinced that there is real value in just producing "good enough" equipment in 90% of categories, and just keeping the production lines going full throttle for years on end, rather than trying to be cutting edge. You may pick one area to be cutting edge in your tech, but in most categories, stick with tried and true equipment and spam its production.
 

Gerar_doorlock

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Dispersed industry really should only have +10% or 15% factories per state since the whole point is that it is dispersed meaning fewer factories per state.
Then why pick dispersed first of all, since we already figured out that dispersed is not no-brainer now ? Also it doesn't mean less factories per state it means less factories gathered in 1 place like big city and more factories in mountains, Hills and so on
 

AmpsterMan

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Whenever i run Concentrated, I try to make sure my NFs match my production. What this means in practice is that i want to get tier 2 or tier 3 equipment whenever possible and set and forget for the rest of the match.
 

Emren

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Denkt points out infantry equipment, but I'd like to add that, due to losses, there are times you may even want to keep producing Infantry Kit I when you research higher techs to make good on equipment losses before swapping over.

A related question, if I may: Let's say you have 10 factories producing Infantry Weapons I, and they're at full efficiency. Would you then switch all 10 factories to either Inf II (or III) at the same time, or gradually switch, let's say 1 factory per month?
 
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Viljainen

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Factory output bonus also applies to dockyards and civilian factories which makes concentrated a better choice for countries that build a lot of new factories (USA) or ships (UK, Japan).
 

Nirmara

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Factory output bonus also applies to dockyards and civilian factories which makes concentrated a better choice for countries that build a lot of new factories (USA) or ships (UK, Japan).

Actually, Dockyards only receive 10% extra output per techs with either concentrated or disperse.
 

Xiziz

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Advantage of concentrated is keeping the factories producing outdated equipment at full efficency and building new factories to produce new equipment. Only taking factories off outdated stuff if the stockpile is big enough.

Then using the upgrade/reinforcement/theater/division equipment priority to make the new stuff go where its needed, the outdated stuff is just as good on low prio fronts.

UK built Hurricanes into 44. US kept building Shermans, etc.
 

Yazem

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Factory output bonus also applies to dockyards and civilian factories which makes concentrated a better choice for countries that build a lot of new factories (USA) or ships (UK, Japan).
As Nimara said. The dockyard output is the same for the two techs, since in 1.4 they both gives +10% dockyard output.
 

Gort11

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What should Poland do? What is best for the Poland players?

Well, in my experience holding out as Democratic Poland, the trick to survival was a vast army of infantry. You don't really get time to research anything new before the war, so you're mostly just producing your starting level 1 infantry gear (with maybe some AA guns and CAS planes, both of which you have researched from the start). So that's three years of producing the same stuff, which means concentrated will give you better results.
 

Cardus

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Simple math. Both tech maxed out, then one factory over a year will produce:

  • Dispersed: 1.5*5*365 = 2737.5
  • Concentrated: 1.75*5*365 = 3193.75
The difference is thus: 3193.75 - 2737.5 = 456.25

Test show that while dispersed do get an early lead that lead is not all that big and concentrated just dominate when lines are at 100% efficiency. Every test I know of show that dispered while holding a lead for around a year to a year and a half (maybe even 2 years) never have much of a lead in terms of raw quantity and then both lines hit peak efficiency concentrated just role away in terms of raw quantity.

And raw quantity is what production lines are about.
Why 1.5 x 5? Where it comes from?
 

Cardus

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that means the actual output difference is even larger since production efficiency works as a multiplier to the base output.
How that works?
 

Denkt

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that means the actual output difference is even larger since production efficiency works as a multiplier to the base output.

The math tell us that the difference between 1 level of dispersed and 1 level of concetrated is 15% - 10% = 5%.

5*5% = 0.25

For level 2 just multiple .25*2 = .5 and so on

So at peek efficiency concentrated will produce 0.25 more each level than dispersed.

Other stuff that effect output such as trade law don't matter here but they do matter in general in evaluating the value of dispersed and concentrated. Dispersed get better the freer trade law you use but the difference is not large.
 

browd

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So on to my question;
Am I right in thinking that dispersed industry is the obvious choice, or am I missing something?
And if not. Why isn't this tweaked in the 1.4 patch?

I think the disparate views expressed in this thread is evidence enough that the devs' (evident) decision not to tinker further with the balance of these techs is the right decision.