Disintegration of empire

[Velorian]

Except no religious leader would plausibly decree an OPM count an emperor, and the game has no scripted sequence / mechanic to deal with that situation. This would be the scripted sequence / mechanic. It doesn't make sense for some AI to continue holding such a ridiculous title when their empire is obviously gone.

And, indeed, in their final century, they were less than 1/8 of even their previous de jure territory. Final century.

I'm confused, you are saying that it's implausible for the Patriarch to support the notion that the emperor is an emperor if he only rules Constantinople? Even though that's essentially what happened from 1350 to 1453?

 

[zijistark]

I'm confused, you are saying that it's implausible for the Patriarch to support the notion that the emperor is an emperor if he only rules Constantinople? Even though that's essentially what happened from 1350 to 1453?

Few other rulers of greater power recognized the Byzantine Empire as a true Empire-level title by then, in game terms. That said, if this mechanic, which was popular (especially for empires that aren't de jure-- HRE, ERE, and Persia) in past user surveys like this, just so terribly upsets some of you, then there's certainly no reason to waste any time coding it.

An even greater problem imo is the fact that i can't found an empire, even when its large as let's say HRE, because "there is no de Jure" or i miss some stupid requirements. I conquered playing as Croatia a huge amount of HRE and Poland as well as Pommeria but:
King: "Well lets call it Empire of Croatia!"
Chancelor: "We can't my liege."
King: "What? Why?"
Chanceler: "Some weird cosmic rules dictates that we can only form Etelköz!"
King: "But thas the magyarian aboriginal homeland AND they are finno-ugric people and we are slavic with complete other culture, language and genetic history?!"
Chancelor: "We should have conquered them instead heading north."
King: "..."

This has not been discussed with the SWMH team, which is something I'd like to do before making any official statements on the matter, but I'm in favor of adding at least a scenario customization option that turns on cultural titular empire titles for those that want the ability to re-create history. History recreation (heh) is an important part of this game. If you want to make them de jure empires, then you must control whole de jure kingdoms, which then begin assimilating over 100 years. Otherwise, you simply need to be large enough (quite large) and not already an emperor.

 

[Velorian]

Well game terms mostly affects prestige and that aspect was mostly intact, it was more that they weren't considered a serious power but that isn't modelled by the in-game tier system anyhow.

With the new empires and perhaps the Holy Roman Empire and Persia their prestige is dependent on their real power (or the fickle support of the pope) but with the Byzantines it was based on history and religious doctrine they'd stay an empire even if purely ceremonial.

I'd consider the feature a great addition as long as the Byzantines are exempt if they possess their capital.

 

[Federalist girl]

Yeah, the way that Plus did it was that certain empires -- the Byzantine Empire, the Mongols, the Aztecs, etc. -- were exempt from the normal empire demotion event. For the Byzantines, it required holding Constantinople -- as soon as they lost it and were below size, they disintegrated to an available kingdom title. As soon as they regained the Queen of Cities, they were promoted back to Empire.

But it makes sense for the ahistorical empires -- they claim their tier by virtue of size and power, so if they lose it, they ought to lose imperial status.

 

[zijistark]

Yeah, the way that Plus did it was that certain empires -- the Byzantine Empire, the Mongols, the Aztecs, etc. -- were exempt from the normal empire demotion event. For the Byzantines, it required holding Constantinople -- as soon as they lost it and were below size, they disintegrated to an available kingdom title. As soon as they regained the Queen of Cities, they were promoted back to Empire.

But it makes sense for the ahistorical empires -- they claim their tier by virtue of size and power, so if they lose it, they ought to lose imperial status.

Makes sense to me.