dishonored alliance

[peter12345]

Hi there!
I'm playing my ottoman game, and i declare war on kazan who is allied to timurids (timurids is a 4 province state). I too was allied to timurids, but they choose to enter the defensive side of the war with kazan. No problem. I win the war, return some cores to my vassal nogai and take a province for myself, so I'm now neighboring the timurids. Now i can actually diplo-vassal timurids (which still has all their cores!). All I need is to enter the alliance again and send some gifts. The only problem with that is, that MY opinion of the timurids is too low!!! This is becuase they disohnered our alliance (-100) and refused to join my war (-50) although I never asked them to join... My question to you guys is this: When will the "dishonered alliance"- and "refused to join war"-penalty expire?

 

[Jorvikson]

a looong time, it should tick down bit by bit, about 70+ years at least

 

[MiniaAr]

a looong time, it should tick down bit by bit, about 70+ years at least

Yeah they are not going to be diplo-vassalisable in a long time. How about an old fashion war to vassalise them however? With only 4 provinces, if they are not too rich, you could achieve that and feed them their cores back.

 

[peter12345]

a looong time, it should tick down bit by bit, about 70+ years at least

damn...

Yeah they are not going to be diplo-vassalisable in a long time. How about an old fashion war to vassalise them however? With only 4 provinces, if they are not too rich, you could achieve that and feed them their cores back.

I'll do!

 

[Cavalry]

if you are just short of Your Opinion for ally someone, then ask them for military access can get +10 relation, I didn't check how much for getting ship base right.

 

[TheBloke]

if you are just short of Your Opinion for ally someone, then ask them for military access can get +10 relation, I didn't check how much for getting ship base right.

FB doesn't help.

You can boost your relation with another nation by a total of +45 :

+10 - get Military Access
+20 - rival one of their rivals (Enemy of Enemy modifier); takes 20 months to tick up to max of +20
+15 - give them War Subsidies. Only works while they're at war, of course. You can give them any amount, including 0.00, and still get the full +15 bonus. Choose 60 months so that it lasts as long as possible, though it will still end before that if their war ends.

 

[unmerged(815621)]

if you are just short of Your Opinion for ally someone, then ask them for military access can get +10 relation, I didn't check how much for getting ship base right.

I think the recently at war, dishonored alliance, and refused to join puts then at -170, which even with +100 for improved relations (assuming they did this), +25ish for same religion still leaves you at -45 ish. Add in another 10 for access, will put you at -35ish. Same rival will put you at -10. At minimum you will need a a few years of time (assuming they keep up the +100 relations). If they do not have the +100 relations, you will need about half a century. You are better of militarily vassalizing them, as it will save you time. Heck, if he could have, he should have done it during the war against them.

 

[TheBloke]

I think the recently at war, dishonored alliance, and refused to join puts then at -170, which even with +100 for improved relations (assuming they did this), +25ish for same religion still leaves you at -45 ish. Add in another 10 for access, will put you at -35ish. At minimum you will need a couple decades of time (assuming they keep up the +100 relations. In that time you could militarily vassal and annex.

You can overcome the extra 35 with the modifiers I listed in post above yours - War Subsidies and Enemy of Enemy

-45 is exactly the amount you can overcome without the other nation Improving Relations with you, or having a RM, etc.

Very useful to ally a nation that is Competing Great Power (25) and Other Religion (10). You can overcome 35, without needing to take MA which uses a DipRel. It does require they are at war, and it takes 20 months for Enemy of Enemy to build up. But still very helpful.

 

[unmerged(815621)]

You can overcome the extra 35 with the modifiers I listed in post above yours - War Subsidies and Enemy of Enemy

-45 is exactly the amount you can overcome without the other nation Improving Relations with you, or having a RM, etc.

Very useful to ally a nation that is Competing Great Power (25) and Other Religion (10). You can overcome 35, without needing to take MA which uses a DipRel. It does require they are at war, and it takes 20 months for Enemy of Enemy to build up. But still very helpful.

The issue then becomes which modifiers fall faster. As they need to be at war to give them subsidies and put you over the edge. So you account for the ticking up of rival (if its not at max), The loss of improved relations and when they try to reup the relations (this is -3ish per year). The loss of the subsidy bonus. The loss of the maluses (one of which is -1 a year).

Given the often iffiness of the +100 improved relations from the computer side, it is generally best to just take them in the initial war. If they have not gotten in a position to ally you before the treaty is up, just war them when it is.

 

[DasWood]

FB doesn't help.

You can boost your relation with another nation by a total of +45 :

+10 - get Military Access
+20 - rival one of their rivals (Enemy of Enemy modifier); takes 20 months to tick up to max of +20
+15 - give them War Subsidies. Only works while they're at war, of course. You can give them any amount, including 0.00, and still get the full +15 bonus. Choose 60 months so that it lasts as long as possible, though it will still end before that if their war ends.

Don't forget the +25 gift bonus and the loan bonus. Both of which are highly situational. Also my experience with loans is they are only good for generating CBs without any AE. AI has not once ever repayed their loan to me.

 

[TheBloke]

Don't forget the +25 gift bonus and the loan bonus. Both of which are highly situational. Also my experience with loans is they are only good for generating CBs without any AE. AI has not once ever repayed their loan to me.

Well we were talking boosting your opinion of the AI. So gift doesn't help. Well, unless they gift you, but sadly it doesn't throw it's money about like that for boosting the AI 's opinion, there's also Guaranteeing, and situationally you can get boosts from defending their territory, declaring wars on their enemies, returning provinces to them etc.

I'm pretty sure there's no opinion boost either side for loans. I've set a number and looked for it but never seen one. I did once think that loaning the AI might have increased my Trust, but that was my first game so I was probably mistaken.

But yeah, loaning is very helpful as a way of buying a CB