Dishonor Before Death III: The Clone Wars

[ForzaA]

I'm truly sorry it has come to this, but the situation left me no choice IMNSHO.

I have been pressuring Mulliman all week to give me an answer on whether or not he would rejoin the war (if he would, I would've announced my resignation)

For me, there is no point to play on if Spain, that can do whatever it wants with me DoWs me twice to support Austria, which in the first Spanish intervention demanded *8* provinces, and I'm certainly no fan of 8 province demands, especially not when someone else gives you the leverage to try and demand it.

the OE can stand the loss of 8 provinces, certainly, but there's no chance of making a comeback later on ( since we're in 1812-1813) then the AI can handle being raped just as well.

I told noone that I would be resigning if it would come to this because I do not wish to force a decision by whining, but to me, this is just principally not done.

Mulliman knew full well that Spain *alone* could handily defeat the OE, and badly at that, and Austria had sufficient strength to atleast put up a very good fight against the OE. If these two then combine their powers to demand *8* provinces (and vasalisation- that demand was never officially withdrawn) then there's a fundamental difference of opinion of what goes in a game.

I realise full well that quiting is "not done" as well, but I'm not going to waste my evening to give such people a taste of "victory".

 

[King John]

I'm truly sorry it has come to this, but the situation left me no choice IMNSHO.

I have been pressuring Mulliman all week to give me an answer on whether or not he would rejoin the war (if he would, I would've announced my resignation)

For me, there is no point to play on if Spain, that can do whatever it wants with me DoWs me twice to support Austria, which in the first Spanish intervention demanded *8* provinces, and I'm certainly no fan of 8 province demands, especially not when someone else gives you the leverage to try and demand it.

the OE can stand the loss of 8 provinces, certainly, but there's no chance of making a comeback later on ( since we're in 1812-1813) then the AI can handle being raped just as well.

I told noone that I would be resigning if it would come to this because I do not wish to force a decision by whining, but to me, this is just principally not done.

Mulliman knew full well that Spain *alone* could handily defeat the OE, and badly at that, and Austria had sufficient strength to atleast put up a very good fight against the OE. If these two then combine their powers to demand *8* provinces (and vasalisation- that demand was never officially withdrawn) then there's a fundamental difference of opinion of what goes in a game.

I realise full well that quiting is "not done" as well, but I'm not going to waste my evening to give such people a taste of "victory".

We could've force peaced Austria together at least .

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Ouch, that was a close shave for me. I was in deep shit vs OE and then PRU DOWed me.

However when SP DOWed OE Forzaa left and WP was made with OE but meanwhile I had lost control of all of Germany, Austria and Hungary to Prussia, I was left with one province in control - Transylvania - (besides Italy under semi-control) where I had a 90k army. Then the good Russians asked if I could hold out till March (this was Oct 1815 I think). I said no and then he DOWed Prussia shortly afterwards.

Thus RUS and AUS proceeded to turn the tables. But first I misclicked and by accident peaced with PRU for a loss of some provinces. But a quick reDOW and it all ended in Summer 1819 with Russia, AUS and SWE (who DOWed as well towards the end) controling all of Prussian territory in Europe. RUS peaced for some provinces and since AUstria know KJ would reject any peace proposal AUS satisfied themselves by taking control of Berlin. Thus proving their superiority

FRA never took a step to protect his vassal. In sharp contrast to Ganja who as SPA proved to be a worthy sub for Mulli and continued to finance AUS in its wars, DOWing OE and fighting rebs in Italy.

A very nice end to this campaign for Austria

 

[LuisPivo]

Fighting as a little england (vasal of Spain) versus Netherlands and the big France was funny. Thanks guys for let me sub. A pity that I couldn't be better

 

[Lord Ganja]

I didn't mean to make you quit Forzaa.
I was in the undesirable position of joining a game where two people give me oposite instructions of what to do with my country. since Austria was being overrun and threatened by Prussia as well, I felt like I had to react to at least secure the status quo.
In the end, OE became another Spanish vassal. Not that it was any achievement against a braindead OE but at least Spain remained #1 in VS for whast it's worth.

 

[juv95hrn]

France used the last years to increase the size of her colonial holdings annexing all of Western Africa probably making her the largest nation in the world.

Holland and France then made war versus England and managed to destroy most of her navy. France now is the 2nd naval power in the world with an equal amount of ships as Holland. Spain has a huge intact navy and must be considered the prime naval power.

Mainland England was occupied, +99 WS reached and most of her colonies taken. England would probably have lost most of her African holdings had the war continued further. Although the war cost huge causulties France had around 500.000 men for defence after England was defeated and nearly 500 Warships.

Unfortunateky the intense naval war versus England meant that France couldnt afford to intervene to aid its vassal Prussia. Had the war vs England not been initiated it would have been an interesting goal trying to vassalize Austria and Russia along with OE and Prussia.

It has been a good campaign with nice players. Apart from some minor incidents I'm very content with it although it got a bit slow at the end, as many campaigns tend to be. Thanks for playing everyone and hope to see you in future campaigns...

 

[juv95hrn]

...at least Spain remained #1 in VS for what it's worth.

Spain is rich and has the most VP but I wouldn't vote for them as the relatively best positioned and successful nation since they avoided the bancrupcy events, which almost guarantuees a nice income and released as many vassals as possible at the end to achieve the VP advantage. Mexico and Venice are clearly not worth losing for the VP they provide. It's a close draw overall to be sure but OE could probably have beat them VP wise by releasing a ton of vassals if that would have counted towards a victory position.

 

[Norrefeldt]

I didn't think you were going to play, but it seems that the Danish allies (FRA, HOL) managed well enough without me.
--------------------------------
IMO the best played nations throughout the campaign, considering the difficulties they had in this game and their historical achievements were:

1st group: FRA, PRU
2nd group: TUR, AUS, HOL
3rd group: SPA, DEN, ENG,
4th group: SWE, POR
5th group: RUS, POL

Holland got the last Portuguese colonies by editing, Spain avoided bankruptcy event, Russia was edited into some sort of shape. Hence they got a bit lower rating from this.
First group were overperforming a lot, second less so, third did more or less what can be expected, forth underperformed, fifth grossly underperformed.

I don't expect anyone to agree totally with this..

 

[Lord Ganja]

Spain is rich and has the most VP but I wouldn't vote for them as the relatively best positioned and successful nation since they avoided the bancrupcy events, which almost guarantuees a nice income and released as many vassals as possible at the end to achieve the VP advantage. Mexico and Venice are clearly not worth losing for the VP they provide. It's a close draw overall to be sure but OE could probably have beat them VP wise by releasing a ton of vassals if that would have counted towards a victory position.

while I think VP don't mean anything, Spain did have some 400 VP more than any other nation before releasing vassals.
Has anyone noticed France gaining like 560 VP by events?
Anyway, since I've only played the last 20 or so years in two different nations I can't really judge the performance of any nation but OE looked quite impressive to me.

 

[Norrefeldt]

Almost no Russia and no Poland made it easier for OE than for many others. Still they got big and held their place in the tech race. They expanded mostly into areas that no one else contended.

 

[unmerged(10915)]

Although i wasnt available the last two sessions, i must say that i enjoyed this game quite alot. Although it got a little stale in the middle, the diplomacy part was what made this game fun for me, figuring out what everyone would do, nudge a little, bribe a little and make sure everyone did what was best for Spain. Sure, it doesnt show alot to other players, but such influence is very rewarding when it works out . One thing that really payed off was making sure that England got Genoa, as this made her stronger while she lost NA and she was a guarranteed ally against France. Despite French propaganda, the Spanish economy did not take any hits from the wars and was able to develop quite fine.
A minor downside was the early alliance between France and Austria, forcing me to miss the good Spanish leaders, whom i had planned to use when i signed up. I had wanted to play an aggressive, continental Spain, but when Austria threatened to join in on the side of France if i DoWed them i switched course, eventually avoiding the bankruptcy and all that to keep an edge in economy. There wasnt much else to do really as i would not have been able to beat a France with all fronts clear (England couldnt help).
Losing out on the last two sessions also nullified my intentions for the end game, which i had been gearing up for since 1770. Dissapointing, but nothing i could prevent.

All in all, it was an enjoyable game with a little too much bitching sometimes. Juv managed to spark a few flames, although from my conversations with him, he seems ignorant of the fact .

 

[Norrefeldt]

One thing that really payed off was making sure that England got Genoa, as this made her stronger while she lost NA and she was a guarranteed ally against France.

Indeed, a very revarding move for Spain.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Indeed, a very revarding move for Spain.

As I subbed FRA in the session where ENG aided by SPA took Genoa I want some credit for this....

In case someone fails to see the logic that this was a tactical masterpiece by me I would like to explain that around 100 years later I took over Austria and needed an economically strong SPA who gave something like 70.000d to AUS during the last 40-50 years of the game (30-40.000 alone for the vassalisation "contract").

 

[juv95hrn]

As I subbed FRA in the session where ENG aided by SPA took Genoa I want some credit for this....

In case someone fails to see the logic that this was a tactical masterpiece by me I would like to explain that around 100 years later I took over Austria and needed an economically strong SPA who gave something like 70.000d to AUS during the last 40-50 years of the game (30-40.000 alone for the vassalisation "contract").

Yes, regaining Genoa and ousting England from all of NA was a bitch. Otoh one must say that this England is about the weakest I have seen in a long time in a MP campaign and it's doubtful if it was a wise move to get engaged as heavily on the continent in the long run? It's fairly clear that Spain drew the long straw on this one, nice move Mulli! I just wish I had been there to contend the move, wether it would have failed or not. To be sure it slowed down French expansion for a very long time.

 

[Adam B.]

llo, Sorry to bother here, but DBD is still alive !

Folly.

 

[unmerged(10915)]

llo, Sorry to bother here, but DBD is still alive !

Folly.

Meh.

Quitter .

 

[King John]

France I definitely give a lot of respect for, in light of its economic accomplishments and victories over England. That's not easy, and certainly doesn't happen too often. However, we should consider that Juv also, almost never, had to deal with a hostile Austria. Drake made longterm deals with the French, and Daniel was too preoccupied to bother with France most of the game, which allowed Juv to put a huge amount of attention into colonial pursuits. Even Spain fought very few continental wars with France.

So, England was the only country to make serious continental war with France toward the beginning of the game . I suppose Spain helped a little, but IIRC it wasn't substantial. Sweden and Brandenburg made war on France once in the 17th century as well.

The last century was different; France faced challenges from Prussia in particular which forced them to take the field in Europe. Austria and Prussia together won a war against France(in which we were very merciful, whether this was appreciated or not ), and then I went crazy and challenged the civilized world with Frederick. France ended up winning, and then attacked Prussia again, the first of a string of victories that resulted in vassalages of Prussia, Spain and I think England(or close enough).

I think the French were not as challenged as most France's, because of its continental peacefulness through most of the game.

Brandenburg on the other hand didn't exactly run on its own steam the first half of the game either. If not for Sweden continually bailing me out, I would've been killed on one of many occasions. First the ai, then Austria 3-4 times until the 18th century. I beat Poland on my own, not a mean feat. While I think I did pretty well economically, I overextended myself in war over and over again, which I suppose shows that overconfidence is one of my weaknesses. But like France, I managed to overcome greater challenges in the 18th century, winning my wars against France, Sweden, Austria, and Holland. Prussia was the strongest country in the world before the dreadful gangbang that killed off Fred and Blucher. Even then, I almost won the war(why did we let Daniel sub Sweden, allowing him to control two countries? . And how did he convince Norre that helping him was a good idea . Very crafty, Daniel ).

I'm a little dissappointed with myself for losing Blucher. If I hadn't, I could've 1) made a better peace at the end of the gangbang
2) possibly won that war
3) held my own vs Nappy

Lacking the leadership to accomplish any of these things, Prussia was allowed to be first run over by France(Sweden was the only nation to come to my aid), then run over by Russia, Austria and Sweden(damn subs ). For some reason, I never do well in the Nappy era :wacko:

But yeah, definitely came close to some mighty deeds with Frederick. Apart from losing him, my biggest regret was not running over Denmark at some point . I think my best moment was when I took Martinique from Holland.



Sweden hasn't been given much credit for its accomplishments this game. In the beginning, Fredrik fought more wars than anybody else, and won all of his wars. He kicked around Denmark, saved Brandenburg many times against Austria, defeated Russia repeatedly, so badly we had to give it extensive edits to resurrect it, and besides that won wars against France and Holland. If he had been less magnanimous in his peace's, he could've dominated the north with a much firmer grip. Economically he didn't do so well, but if he had taken his due in war, it would've made up for all his war expenditures. Fredrik was probably the most outgoing warmonger in this game.

All in all, good campaign. A little static, but things stayed interesting for me at least throughout. GG guys.

 

[King John]

Couldn't post this one with my last post because I had too many smileys o .

A few awards that might be interesting.

Best economist: Juv
2nd place: John
3rd place: Mulliman
Best warmonger: Fred
2nd place: John
3rd place: Juv
Best diplomat: Mulli
2nd place: Daniel A
3rd place: Juv
Best all around: Juv
2nd best: John
3rd best: Mulli
Coolest country: Prussia
2nd coolest country: France
3rd coolest country: Sweden
Most asthetic country: Denmark
2nd most asthetic: Prussia(before Ganja )
3rd most asthetic: Sweden
ugliest country: Prussia(after Ganja )
2nd ugliest: Austria
most aggressive: John
2nd most aggressive: Fred
3rd most aggressive: Forzaa
most stubborn: Daniel
Most ineffectual fleet: Prussia (900 or so lost for nothing, thanks for the advice Barnius)
Easiest peace terms: Fred
Most tenacious: Daniel
2nd most tenacious: Sander
Best attitude: Mulliman

 

[unmerged(10915)]

So, England was the only country to make serious continental war with France toward the beginning of the game . I suppose Spain helped a little, but IIRC it wasn't substantial. Sweden and Brandenburg made war on France once in the 17th century as well.

Meh, you couldnt have followed the western scene very much then. That 22 years war, Spain pulled alot of weight although the focus of the war was England. OE joined early, but with a bribe on Russia were forced out again and i mounted many stupid invasions of southern France as well as relief forces in England.

Still, i can agree that there werent many wars with France, something i am not happy about and what i lacked in this game. My kick came instead from massively funding alot of nations, often on both sides of a conflict, just to keep it rolling and force the nations into dependency and gratitude towards their moneylender .

Brandenburg on the other hand didn't exactly run on its own steam the first half of the game either. If not for Sweden continually bailing me out, I would've been killed on one of many occasions.

Some honor should also be granted to the cash cow, who stood at service on a few vital occassions .

And ill prolly gather together some rankings or such, at least my view of the situation .

 

[unmerged(10915)]

Best attitude: Mulliman

Just wondering. What does that mean?