Dishonor Before Death I; The Trade Wars.

[Fredrik82]

France havn't even reached infra 5 yet, though we will very soon.
With Trade 3 we did learn to gain monopolies, this mean that the French income increased quite a bit. The main goal is however to build gouvernus asap in all provinces. French inflation is hurting. Not a singel Deflation event hurt. In fact it suck big time

 

[Seen]

*Porto overtook OE in trade Income. Soon he will be the top earner.

*OE still has the income lead, as ALLAH AKHBAR!

Hehe, i can now see clearly why you object so much to a lousy TL upgrade, OE will probably be the biggest loser Trade wise because Dutch merchants will kick your Allah Akbar Friends right out because of there ancient Prices :rofl:

Im now pretty confident everybody except OE will agree a TL rise

PS: Trade level 3 is HALF of Porto's TL...Haha...and he is investing in it fully to reach 7. Come on Devil!

 

[Fredrik82]

Let me repeat we are not playing to re-live history. Holland is in excellent shape. As the economics show they are doing fine. I can agree to a +2000d boost in Trade tech that will push them into level3, giving them a TE of 71% same level as porto. Then only England is ahead of them. Remember it only costs holland 6000 to reach level 4, if theoretical doing full investment holland will reach that in 1615.

That should be enough

 

[devil]

Hehe, i can now see clearly why you object so much to a lousy TL upgrade, OE will probably be the biggest loser Trade wise because Dutch merchants will kick your Allah Akbar Friends right out because of there ancient Prices :rofl:

Maybe OE will lose maybe not, but I will remember you don't want to trade in OE cots with that attitude. Consider yourself very close to a embargo.

Im now pretty confident everybody except OE will agree a TL rise

Then maybe you should read Fred's reply.

PS: Trade level 3 is HALF of Porto's TL...

Come on Seen learn to read, 71% TE to both porto and holland that means they are on the same level.

Haha...and he is investing in it fully to reach 7.

Ehm I think he need to focus on other areas as England discovered...

Come on Devil!

I am not totally saying no, I just very much against it, especially when it will affect a lot of other nations, only for you to gain, and you doing well allready. In your own words.

 

[Chaingun]

The Netherland's income is already greater than Brandenburg's; why can't Brandenburg have another 3 trade levels too? It would greatly enrich its trade just like the Netherland's...

Seriously, although I can see a historical justification for giving NL three more trade levels, things have already developed unhistorically. Introducing a "historical" element this far into a game only feels artificial. Really, three trade levels out of the game mechanics is a very large boost, and the Netherlands is already a richer nation than Brandenburg with a mere four European provinces and few built colonies. If I can manage with measly income shouldn't they do if the game mechanics of vassalage release has determined that?

Note: I did not want to make this into an especial complaint about the position of Brandenburg's trade, but Devil has a point.

 

[unmerged(24643)]

Portugal won't give its point of view as I consider that this is GM question. I think there are arguments for any decision GM take.

Talking about last session, I'm happy about trade boost but even more about other increases as Census Taxes, production, etc. Portugal has tried to develop its trade without being aggresive and trying to respect other's CoT (well, I think sometimes I took away some monopoles... sorry ). I expect same consideration to my CoT, or I'll have to think in other alternatives.

On the other hand, diplomatic moves have been very nice. The most important naval alliance was formed to protect common overseas interests. Besides, other interesting agreements were signed.

One question about Tonioz stats... is moral well calculated there? As I see a lot of differents and sometimes I don't understand why...

 

[unmerged(24643)]

As I'm leaving for a long weekend and back next wednesday, I let my leader option for next session: L4.

I hope one of the GM reads this and specially, remembers

 

[Chaingun]

I take L5 as usual.

 

[Fredrik82]

I take L5 as usual.

France will too

 

[Seen]

Hehe, Devil, before you say again that my ONE (BB, not three anymore)
TL upgrade is to much of a request, Ill just remind you of your own experience in requesting edits for it...

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131703&page=7&pp=25&highlight=Kulturekampf

I invite all to read it, as Devil apperently THEN saw reason in the
edits...why not now

You are complaining about about 16-12-4-4 (and no eastern exploration, mostly) in 1583? or earlier. I am complain about 18-13-2-4 in 1607!

While i had to beg my way into maps And just look at YOUR poor nl, only TL 4 while its not even 1583 there yet.......

one quote out of it i wont retain from you:

Right finaly I have looked at the save and I am not happy...

first of all I only have maps to morroco.... nothing more, and second my fleets are dying of attrition in the atlantic ocean.

I propose some edits to both since I don't have a explorer, before 1583. I will be paralyzed, with these maps... Its like spain didn't even bother to explore nor colonise.

And porto has raped all of indonesia...

Well I hope I at least can get 6 colonists and some other compensation for spains incompetance, I really far behind in tech also

Especially the last part, you've outdone yourself :rofl: :rofl: (behind in tech !! :rofl: :rofl: )

I hear you didnt get the edits, but you saw reason in it then, and we are 30 years later. I think you cant argue with yourself, or can you?

 

[Joohoo]

Hehe, Devil, before you say again that my ONE (BB, not three anymore)
TL upgrade is to much of a request, Ill just remind you of your own experience in requesting edits for it...

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131703&page=7&pp=25&highlight=Kulturekampf

I invite all to read it, as Devil apperently THEN saw reason in the
edits...why not now

You are complaining about about 16-12-4-4 (and no eastern exploration, mostly) in 1583? or earlier. I am complain about 18-13-2-4 in 1607!

While i had to beg my way into maps And just look at YOUR poor nl, only TL 4 while its not even 1583 there yet.......

one quote out of it i wont retain from you:


Especially the last part, you've outdone yourself :rofl: :rofl: (behind in tech !! :rofl: :rofl: )

I hear you didnt get the edits, but you saw reason in it then, and we are 30 years later. I think you cant argue with yourself, or can you?

*sniff* i remember that game, HG was OE and I Austria and he took all his Hungarian and Austrian cores the first session

 

[unmerged(11287)]

Seen, I've misclicked in an event that gave me +8 inflation instead of the +5 one and i didn't complain about my horrible situation in inflation, tech and other aspects. (fortunately i've only minted +0,3 inflation last session). I still blame what Sterk did in the first session by holding me in a terrible situation for 6 years (8 years of war) that made me take loans, and a lot of inflation in a gamey way (i was offering Samara, but apparently Poland wanted to fuck Russia badly to make it unplayable). I didn't complain because others would ask for compensations.

As this is reciprocal, if NL got more tech, I'd ask for -3 inflation for the event i have misclicked (last session) -1 inno +1 Aristocracy, then a -3 inflation from Sterk's way to war that consisted in holding a country to make them inflate, no matter if that country was offering 3 rich provinces (rejected) until Poland was forced to take it (and all blamed me for not giving up, fallacy).

 

[devil]

Hehe, Devil, before you say again that my ONE (BB, not three anymore)
TL upgrade is to much of a request, Ill just remind you of your own experience in requesting edits for it...

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131703&page=7&pp=25&highlight=Kulturekampf

I invite all to read it, as Devil apperently THEN saw reason in the
edits...why not now

You are complaining about about 16-12-4-4 (and no eastern exploration, mostly) in 1583? or earlier. I am complain about 18-13-2-4 in 1607!

While i had to beg my way into maps And just look at YOUR poor nl, only TL 4 while its not even 1583 there yet.......

OMG... I am getting pretty sick and tired of your whining Seen... Trying a character assassination because you are not getting your will. That is pretty childish, if you wanted you could have asked me face to face... This is just pathetic.

what about some maps, spain really haven't explored anything, I mean come on not even cape hope? or india? also all inflation should be removed.

There is a big difference here Holland had been AI, all explorers where at sea dying... I did ask for compensation as KultureKampf was quite fucked. AI took the +8 inflation event....

Now things to remember are:
1. I didn't sign up for the game, I was invited the session after it had spawned.
2. I joined without looking at the scen, nor the setup.

Also both austria and spain where played by newbies, very bad player placement.

Especially the last part, you've outdone yourself (behind in tech !! )

I hear you didnt get the edits, but you saw reason in it then, and we are 30 years later. I think you cant argue with yourself, or can you?

But I do admit I learned the lesson from then, there is no need for holland to get any boosts. I survived quite well.

I am not afraid to admit I was a newbie once, nor that I did and still do make mistakes..

 

[devil]

Seen, I've misclicked in an event that gave me +8 inflation instead of the +5 one and i didn't complain about my horrible situation in inflation, tech and other aspects. (fortunately i've only minted +0,3 inflation last session). I still blame what Sterk did in the first session by holding me in a terrible situation for 6 years (8 years of war) that made me take loans, and a lot of inflation in a gamey way (i was offering Samara, but apparently Poland wanted to fuck Russia badly to make it unplayable). I didn't complain because others would ask for compensations.

As this is reciprocal, if NL got more tech, I'd ask for -3 inflation for the event i have misclicked (last session) -1 inno +1 Aristocracy, then a -3 inflation from Sterk's way to war that consisted in holding a country to make them inflate, no matter if that country was offering 3 rich provinces (rejected) until Poland was forced to take it (and all blamed me for not giving up, fallacy).

You will get the correcting of the event pibe. please PM me with info about it.

 

[Seen]

As i told you via ICQ (you know a lot of insults i must say ) I was never my intention to "character Assasinate" you. I you feel it that way, i will apologize for THAT.

From my point of view it was the perfect example why my nl is backward atm. Yours was played by AI few months, you got the same edits i got (ships etc) and had 30 more years to do whatever

my argument is still sound (that was the idea of the post) that your
16-12-4-4 (and no eastern exploration, mostly) in 1583? and my
18-13-2-4 in 1607!

I see the difrence between whyning and a discussion about a gameissue, can you?

 

[devil]

As i told you via ICQ (you know a lot of insults i must say ) I was never my intention to "character Assasinate" you. I you feel it that way, i will apologize for THAT.

From my point of view it was the perfect example why my nl is backward atm. Yours was played by AI few months, you got the same edits i got (ships etc) and had 30 more years to do whatever

my argument is still sound (that was the idea of the post) that your
16-12-4-4 (and no eastern exploration, mostly) in 1583? and my
18-13-2-4 in 1607!

I see the difrence between whyning and a discussion about a gameissue, can you?

Of course, I can see the difference, I am just telling you, what PJL (or was it owen) explained me then. Holland will recooperate really fast. Hence I accepted no edits, and found it was quite allright. Eventhough I quit after not being able to attend next session, and then HG ruining the game by taking half of germany with OE.

 

[Tonioz]

One question about Tonioz stats... is moral well calculated there? As I see a lot of differents and sometimes I don't understand why...

Theoretical land morale is right except Defender of Faith title. Naval morale should be rechecked, it is permanently lower than it should be on 50%.

Anyway Max Morale means maximum morale of any all troops and navies. So if at least one army got full morale after battle/building, "Max morale" shows correctly.

 

[devil]

Uhm I was thinking about all the discussions in this game, and to be honest I am quite tired of it... I am tired of being/playing the policeman...
From now on, I will not play for balance anymore. I will be the economist.

I thought about the whole boosting thing, and to be honest I don't care anymore. I am tired of taking all the the crap people throw at you, when they don't get it their way.

If you think Russia should have mongol or we should add 3 trade levels to Holland do it or whatever... I don't care... If people can't survive in a competitive game without boosts so be it... This is not primarly directed at Seen. Not being a vet nor very experianced player, you didn't know the other possibilities of a dutch release.

I will stick to OE business only from now on. If I if you want/have a deal with OE, I advice you to confirm it with the sultan, those that don't do diplomacy will likely be the next targets. Ask not what the OE can do for you, ask what you can do for the OE.

 

[unmerged(11287)]

have you slided and beaten yourself while you were showering, Devil?

Nah, let's continue like this. Btw the NL issue makes me realise it's a good idea!. I'm playing as Spain in a game and I prefer to have a weaken NL than a high-teched one, that at the moment is Spain, giving all to England or Austria to let them set free is a terrific idea. I find it logical since NL has a lot of potential.

having mogol makes Russia stronger agaist Oe that from my point of view it's always a great power, why wasting my time with Sweden when i can have them as good allias to help the Red Bear and viceversa. Look at Sweden now!

In any case I've blocked you to access mogol east provinces and accepted you as my neighbour in Antrakan and Crimea for a long time. I feel myself impotent and poor enough to counter balance things. hehe and I think that having a strong NL in tradding will fuck my Cot as only help Shame having such greedy ally!

Seen you've been set free by austrians, take it as a man and chill out you all.

 

[devil]

having mogol makes Russia stronger agaist Oe that from my point of view it's always a great power, why wasting my time with Sweden when i can have them as good allias to help the Red Bear and viceversa. Look at Sweden now!

Yes look at sweden while they are benefitting you are losing from it

In any case I've blocked you to access mogol east provinces and accepted you as my neighbour in Antrakan and Crimea for a long time. I feel myself impotent and poor enough to counter balance things.

Lets just see for how long you can block that access shall we? Those lands will be returned to freedom, its only a matter of time.