Seriously, its like they didn't even bother to balance the hospital costs. They are completely out of wack compared to the other upgrades. 3000 gold for anything is just insane.
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Disease Control, wide or tall hospital structure.
- Thread starter TheDungen
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I just had a game as Shahanshah of Persia, start 769, where the Black Death went through my Empire in 870. I chose to build tall, so almost all upgrades within my own holdings, ignoring my vassals. And it worked great. Before my capital in Nisherapur (middle of Persia) got the Black Death, the Black Death reached Italy and Greece, almost two years after its first outbreak. I did not even shut the gates, there was no reason. Not even 10 people died at my court because it came so late (mostly people I actually wanted to see dead like ALL my sons). And most of my holdings did not lose any population.
So building tall is in my opinion a valid strategy when you want to keep your family alive, but it is pretty expensive, without the Silk Road I do not think I could have been able to build it.
Spreading hospitals all over the empire should mean that you only delay the outbreak for a few months instead of several years.
In other words, I am going with what thevmag said: Protect your most important countys and holdings, especially your capital to keep your family alive.
So building tall is in my opinion a valid strategy when you want to keep your family alive, but it is pretty expensive, without the Silk Road I do not think I could have been able to build it.
Spreading hospitals all over the empire should mean that you only delay the outbreak for a few months instead of several years.
In other words, I am going with what thevmag said: Protect your most important countys and holdings, especially your capital to keep your family alive.
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Except the math says the opposite, that for a cost you delay it longer by having more places where it can be resisted.
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...and yet the buildings that give you the most powerful bonus (+2 reputation) are relatively cheap.
Fill your demesne with those, and almost everybody will love you! Forever!!
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I'm sure those single digit disease resistance provinces are really going to help more than a 50%+ stronghold.
Seems like a fair idea. 100 gold for your basic hospital isn't a lot, and most of your basic upgrades are enough that, should you be a tiny country only looking after your own, they'll cover what you need. Big expenses are for the biggest, bountiful nations - naturally susceptible to disease, by some coast or trade zone that afford both wealth and infection. For these, the need to grow better resistances are matched by the increasing amount of wealth.
Being based out of Khiva with land held in the Tarim Basin, I definitely have the gold to afford fully maxed hospitals in all my holdings, but that's because they're on Silk Road routes and those get disease each time. My vassals in Mongolia can't afford to even build basic hospitals, but managed to avoid the plague completely.
Though, perfect disease prevention being inaccessible to most is probably Why the top upgrades are so expensive: 8th to 15th century healthcare really isn't the best, and most realms aren't going to realistically protect themselves from plague with guaranteed success.
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Well it's all a matter of how many of them you can stack, but think of it like rolling dice. Every month you have to roll one dice and not get a one, if you do you lose. While every month I roll one of my dice and if I don't get a 6 i discard it, but I need to run out of dice to lose. Which is better depends on the number of dice I have.
Exactly you are not paying to stop the disease you are paying to delay it, and the more you pay the more you delay it. It may not be the best use of your money but it is something to sink money into when you have nothing more to build, since the cost of the last buildings are so high even a small realm will generally never run out of hospital upgrades to want. Especially since so many of the hospitals buildings give tech which unlocks more stuff that you can spend money on.
I still think a shield of low level hospitals like ablative armour is a better defence than a few super good ones but that strategy of course requires you to have a huge number of provinces to build in. Ideally you'll have so many that the disease never really get far from the province it began in.
Which building was that?
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But those are only church opinion. The church vassals aren't usually the grumpy ones.
Am I the only one thinking that PDS missed a golden opportunity to finally make temple holdings competitive with castles and cities?
I know they specifically made it a special holding because there are a lot of provinces without temples but considering the pay table they came up with for the upgrades I am thinking it would be more interesting to have to decide how many cities/castles you would have to give up on to reach any given desired disease resistance level.
I know they specifically made it a special holding because there are a lot of provinces without temples but considering the pay table they came up with for the upgrades I am thinking it would be more interesting to have to decide how many cities/castles you would have to give up on to reach any given desired disease resistance level.
Yes I was thinking that too they could have spread these buildings over the three existing holding types. For an example the mainline hospitals in the temples and the leper colony and soup kitchen in the city. Or maybe the rename the soup kitchen as Alms Office or Alms square and stick it to the castle.
By having a few disease resistance buildings in castles and cities they wouldn't make temples a must, but by having most of them there they would make them desirable.
I think the reason they didn't is that it would have been harder to put that behind a pay wall than a separate holding.
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Am I the only one rolling in SO MUCH MONEY from my "booming" demesne counties that the costs for hospital upgrades aren't that big of a deal? As just the king of Brittany and southern England, I am making ~40-48g/month. I'm rolling in so much cash that the real limiting factor for hospital upgrades (for my demesne) is actually the tech requirements....
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I think the big confusion here, vis a vis wall of hospitals or one really good one, is whether we're talking about minor epidemics or a major plague. I've noticed that, for small epidemics (smallpox, camp fever, great pox, etc), my personal lands are almost never touched, while my vassals are never so lucky. Even in lands without maxed out hospitals, they're pretty safe. Come Black Death time, however, and it's 4 years of isolation.
If we're talking protection from minor epidemics, then I can see how a wall of hospitals can help you.
HOWEVER,
Minor epidemics aren't the most damaging thing your realm can suffer. You get a minor penalty to tax and levies, and a chance of maybe some courtiers catching it, but it's nothing more annoying than raiding season. If the hospital wall strategy kept the Black Death out, when severe depopulation can gut you worse than anything, then those are results I'd be interested in.
If we're talking protection from minor epidemics, then I can see how a wall of hospitals can help you.
HOWEVER,
Minor epidemics aren't the most damaging thing your realm can suffer. You get a minor penalty to tax and levies, and a chance of maybe some courtiers catching it, but it's nothing more annoying than raiding season. If the hospital wall strategy kept the Black Death out, when severe depopulation can gut you worse than anything, then those are results I'd be interested in.
I definitely also find myself making much more money than pre-RD. I suspect it's because of the Prosperity mechanics not being balanced by a general reduction in base taxes. Since most realms run high income but high expenses, a percent increase in income with no corresponding increase in costs results in a disproportionately high increase in profit.
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Well nothing will stop the black death. And I kind of agree I expected province prosperity to be much more dynamic rising faster but being lost more often I barely ever see disease impact my prosperity in my demesne. Then again I don't think prosperity can rise more than once per province and character.
You should definitely upgrade your capital's hospital, that's whats protecting you and your family and heirs and councilers and basically everything else you actually care about. If the count of Malta croaks of too much pooping, I don't really care, but when disease is on my doorstep...
Of course... still haven't quite adjusted my thinking to them doing things for the money
Please, it's the Scots that need protection from all those crazy Englishmen.
Well like I have pointed out numerous times, disease can't spread to your capital without first spreading to a province next to it and so on. So unless the disease spawns right next to your demesne protecting the vassals around you means protecting yourself. That is not the argument the argument here is is it more efficient than spending the same money in your capital, I hold that it is, but the consensus seems to be against me at the moment.