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Yes.
I don't think hexes are neccecary but the basic idea is to make the military map more exact.
I was pretty sure I read it the other way around... need to verify that some time.
Originally posted by Sytass
I was pretty sure I read it the other way around... need to verify that some time.
Don't trust any German textbooks on the Second Reich
. Read English language texts, in particularly any written by Scandinavians. German historians all seem to think that the Empire was doomed from the beginning.
Originally posted by Hardu
Don't trust any German textbooks on the Second Reich
My source was fairly independent and I thought well researched. At any rate, I'll take a second look.
But yes, we Germans have some issues with some parts of our history.
I think Sweden was relatively behind industrially even by the end of the 19th century. Around 1900, 20 percent of the Swedish workforce was in industry as opposed to 27 percent in Norway or 37 percent in Germany.
Yes, I stand corrected. I mixed things terribly up with the 1930s, the wake of the Great Depression, and the then quite well developed industry and agriculture in Sweden.
Originally posted by Sytass
Yes, I stand corrected. I mixed things terribly up with the 1930s, the wake of the Great Depression, and the then quite well developed industry and agriculture in Sweden.
Yes by the 30's the 2nd industrial revolution was over and electricity generated by hydropower had become prolific in Sweden and Norway and probably Switzerland.
Who cares about Sweden anyway...
Cries of "heresy!" and "lynch him!" emit from the vast, torch-wielding crowd as Sharur flees in terror
To get back on topic...
This is a fairly straightforward idea that would work beautifully IMHO. The fact that I can take out Poland in less than a week in HOI is somewhat disturbing, no matter how little resistance I meet (and I usually have some sort of fight in every province). Nations simply don't approach military maps in the way that they do economic maps anyway; thus, it makes sense to me to divide the military map into smaller sections or even hexes (though that's a bit doubtful, not to mention intimidating for non-grognards), and keep the political/administrative map on a broader level based more on population, city locations, and available resources than on transit times, army maneuvering, and supply chains. After all, how realistic is it to surround a province as big as Moskva or Berlin and be able to cut off supply to it? The available routes for supply chains are far too great to be covered by four or five armies surrounding that big a chunk of land, even if they formed a ring one man deep all the way across the provinces
Smaller military provinces could make maneuvering not only more realistic, but also more important and fun, and could encourage the use of the smaller units that the AI is so fond of anyway, while leaving administrative provinces about the same size they are now would prevent players going insane from having to manage 5000 different economic provinces
Please, Paradox, if you ever listen to any suggestions on this game, listen to this one! It would be a vast improvement, and I'm sure that it's not too far along in development to be implemented.
Cries of "heresy!" and "lynch him!" emit from the vast, torch-wielding crowd as Sharur flees in terror
To get back on topic...
This is a fairly straightforward idea that would work beautifully IMHO. The fact that I can take out Poland in less than a week in HOI is somewhat disturbing, no matter how little resistance I meet (and I usually have some sort of fight in every province). Nations simply don't approach military maps in the way that they do economic maps anyway; thus, it makes sense to me to divide the military map into smaller sections or even hexes (though that's a bit doubtful, not to mention intimidating for non-grognards), and keep the political/administrative map on a broader level based more on population, city locations, and available resources than on transit times, army maneuvering, and supply chains. After all, how realistic is it to surround a province as big as Moskva or Berlin and be able to cut off supply to it? The available routes for supply chains are far too great to be covered by four or five armies surrounding that big a chunk of land, even if they formed a ring one man deep all the way across the provinces
Smaller military provinces could make maneuvering not only more realistic, but also more important and fun, and could encourage the use of the smaller units that the AI is so fond of anyway, while leaving administrative provinces about the same size they are now would prevent players going insane from having to manage 5000 different economic provinces
Please, Paradox, if you ever listen to any suggestions on this game, listen to this one! It would be a vast improvement, and I'm sure that it's not too far along in development to be implemented.
I HATE the hex with a passion....
Of course, I had a thought... with the civil war and all, the provinces in at least the Eastern US would have to be relatively small, don't you think?
M
Of course, I had a thought... with the civil war and all, the provinces in at least the Eastern US would have to be relatively small, don't you think?
M
The EU engine is based on area movement. The basic problem with the engine is that each area must be clickable. Judging from the one screenshot there will be movement provinces and administrative provinces.
It is a strategic game, however. If you want operational combat find an operational level game. I don't see any more point in having 5000 military provinces than 5000 administrative however.
It is a strategic game, however. If you want operational combat find an operational level game. I don't see any more point in having 5000 military provinces than 5000 administrative however.
how canu hate the hex? and reply to you who aid we needed administrative and military zones this is what they shouldve done in HOI! too bad they didnt it wouldve been such a cool game =(
It can be a little too unrealistic, however, if the "strategery"
gets too abstract. And not that I'm saying that it needs hexes, but hexes don't have to mean operational level combat. They could be big hexes The point is that the military provinces would really benefit from being smaller than the economic ones.
Yes it is a strategic game.
But the advance and conquest of a province is unrealistic.
Having smaller sub provinces to hadvance through would slow it down considerably.
Just take HoI and compare Norways or France's provinces with Sweden. Even though Sweden wasn't in the war doesn't mean that they would be conquered in a few days which normaly happens if anyone attacks them.
Same thing with the Soviet union.
The binary way province ownership is handled doesn't work well imo. Not in the times after EU.
Hexes vs area movement
Peo: In HoI distance on the map is measured in real terms. There is thus no need for hexes per se as the territorial divisions of the map can be of any size and shape.
I assume the Vic movement system will be similar.
I don't see how "the advance and conquest of a provi9nce" is unrealistic. If you have an army in Skåne and there is no opposition you control that province.
Sharur: Think of the areas as "big hexes". It would of course be nice to be able to to send armies advancing in parallell through neigbouring provinces and thus have more "operational" combat. But I'll defer judgement until I see more of the map.
Peo: In HoI distance on the map is measured in real terms. There is thus no need for hexes per se as the territorial divisions of the map can be of any size and shape.
I assume the Vic movement system will be similar.
I don't see how "the advance and conquest of a provi9nce" is unrealistic. If you have an army in Skåne and there is no opposition you control that province.
Sharur: Think of the areas as "big hexes". It would of course be nice to be able to to send armies advancing in parallell through neigbouring provinces and thus have more "operational" combat. But I'll defer judgement until I see more of the map.
thing is because of these areas you can create "bottlenecks" in some provinces. say for example i want to defend russia against germany in hoi there is one large province that can be attacked from 5 german ones a hex is always equal in size and same shape so there are no advantages from any other province. also in a hex you always have a set center point its just better accept it! then you could have larger administrative zones i liked that idea.
Re: Hexes vs area movement
Have you tried to defend Sweden?
Or as Germany or anyone else attack it?
That movement is based on real distance is a load of ****.
Sweden is larger than Finland but Finland has a myriad of provinces to have a defence of.
Same with Norway.
The reason for having smaller areas militarily is that it would be a uniform size of all provinces militarily. No more move a divions into Alberta (or any of the big NA ones) and control it. It is just not reasonable.
The Swedish defence has for a very long time been based around the idea to have a moving defence. This is impossible in HoI due to the fact that you don't have any room to move to.
The battles only occur when you are in a province and the other guy attacks into it. And Swedens VP provinces are iirc only in Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö.
3 coastal provinces with easy terrain.
Compare to Norway or Finland.
This is less of a problem in HoI but i raised the point then and was ignored also.
I still think that provinces should be of uniform size but not uniform value.
Have you tried to defend Sweden?
Or as Germany or anyone else attack it?
That movement is based on real distance is a load of ****.
Sweden is larger than Finland but Finland has a myriad of provinces to have a defence of.
Same with Norway.
The reason for having smaller areas militarily is that it would be a uniform size of all provinces militarily. No more move a divions into Alberta (or any of the big NA ones) and control it. It is just not reasonable.
The Swedish defence has for a very long time been based around the idea to have a moving defence. This is impossible in HoI due to the fact that you don't have any room to move to.
The battles only occur when you are in a province and the other guy attacks into it. And Swedens VP provinces are iirc only in Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö.
3 coastal provinces with easy terrain.
Compare to Norway or Finland.
This is less of a problem in HoI but i raised the point then and was ignored also.
I still think that provinces should be of uniform size but not uniform value.
Well, for one, it's a bit unrealistic. No army is going to move into territory and take an area in the shape of a hexagon all the time. Also it would make borders nasty-looking and unrealistic instead of having them based on rivers or mountains.