Discussion - Increasing Power Gain

[Battlecry]

Given that power, in its three forms (ADM,DIP,MIL), is so very important in EU4, I wanted to have a discussion about all the ways of raising your monthly gain of power.

1. Your ruler: The base stat comes from your ruler's ratings. Not too complicated here.

2. Advisors: Every advisor raises one of the power stats, according to their skill level - up to 3. Choosing a more expensive advisor, therefore, is one of the ways in which you can trade money for power.

3. Buildings: After looking at the code, I was surprised to find that every building, like advisors, raises a particular power stat. As there is no skill level involved, it would seem each building only adds 1 power, so this provides a way for larger nations to trade money (in one-shot form) for power. The potential gain for a large nation with money to burn is pretty staggering. I can't tell if any later buildings replace older buildings. Note that most buildings are destroyed on conquest (which I assume means on transfer of ownership, rather than mere occupation), so you don't get a power boost by capturing previously built-up provinces.

I've built up a modifiers list from the code, and there don't appear to be any that affect power gain at all, so what you have is what you have, with no way to multiply the effect - unlike virtually every other game stat.

 

[unmerged(752132)]

Hiring better advisors? It only allows you to multiply it to a certain extent sure, but this stops snowballing very well as you've got limited power you have to chose whether to conquer, or advance, or whatever. I don't see the problem with this at all. Makes the game more interesting, instead of EU3's everythings multiplied so much that after you get a certain amount of power nobody can stop you, theres no longer challenge, its all tedious micromanagement, and the game loses its point.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Every building COSTS 10 monarch power (of the appropriate type) to build, it does not RAISE monarch power.

You gain monarch power from the base value, your ruler, advisers, and events. The first is up to the whim of the RNG, the second you can affect, and the third is again up to the whim of the RNG though you can certainly bias it in your favour by taking the Innovativeness idea group, which has some very nice power-gain events.


It is bloody expensive in monarch power to spam buildings everywhere for large countries; Worth it if you can afford it, but bloody expensive.

The key to success for both small and large countries in EU4 is to ruthlessly prioritize the spending of monarch power where it benefits your goals the most.

 

[Battlecry]

Every building COSTS 10 monarch power (of the appropriate type) to build, it does not RAISE monarch power.

You gain monarch power from the base value, your ruler, advisers, and events. The first is up to the whim of the RNG, the second you can affect, and the third is again up to the whim of the RNG though you can certainly bias it in your favour by taking the Innovativeness idea group, which has some very nice power-gain events.


It is bloody expensive in monarch power to spam buildings everywhere for large countries; Worth it if you can afford it, but bloody expensive.

The key to success for both small and large countries in EU4 is to ruthlessly prioritize the spending of monarch power where it benefits your goals the most.

Odd. If the designation for which power an advisor adds to is not "monarch_power = ADM", then what is? I assumed because the code was the same in advisors and buildings that they both added to power over time.

 

[Thanik]

Odd. If the designation for which power an advisor adds to is not "monarch_power = ADM", then what is? I assumed because the code was the same in advisors and buildings that they both added to power over time.

They use this same code, but in different way. Advisor add this value, and bulding take this value from you

Edit:
Anyway some events are triggered when you province have proper bulding there. For example
And when you invest in buldings, you get more money so better advisors + ideas which boost technology/idea cost instead of raising money

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 5000 # Random Province Event

modifier = {
factor = 0.5
has_building = tax_assessor
}

 

[Battlecry]

They use this same code, but in different way. Advisor add this value, and bulding take this value from you

Oh...great. So the power cost of a building is just some set rate? Because it's not listed in the code. I really wasn't expecting buildings to cost both power and money.

Without any modifiers for power, there doesn't seem to be any way to increase power gain over time. Am I correct?

And wth is RNG? 6 years of EU modding and I've never heard that acronym.

 

[Xia]

Odd. If the designation for which power an advisor adds to is not "monarch_power = ADM", then what is? I assumed because the code was the same in advisors and buildings that they both added to power over time.

I should imagine that it's partly hard coded - or maybe snuck away in the defines file (I'll take a look)

EDIT: RNG = Random Number Generator

EDIT 2: Oh yeah, and you can give certain tech groups a power increase; I'm unsure if you can use that line and shove it on a building

 

[Battlecry]

I should imagine that it's partly hard coded - or maybe snuck away in the defines file (I'll take a look)

EDIT: RNG = Random Number Generator

EDIT 2: Oh yeah, and you can give certain tech groups a power increase; I'm unsure if you can use that line and shove it on a building

It's in the defines:

PS_BUY_IDEA = 400,
	PS_ADVANCE_TECH = 500,
	PS_BOOST_STABILITY = 100,
	PS_BUY_LEADER = 50,
	PS_BUILD_BUILDING = 10,
	PS_ASSAULT = 2,
	PS_FORCE_MARCH = 2,
	PS_DEMAND_NON_WARGOAL_PEACE = 50,
	PS_DEMAND_NON_WARGOAL_PEACE_PRIMITIVES = 0,
	PS_MAKE_PROVINCE_CORE = 20,
	PS_REDUCE_INFLATION = 200,
	PS_MOVE_CAPITAL = 200,
	PS_REPLACE_RIVAL = 10,
	PS_SEIZE_COLONY = 25,
	PS_BURN_COLONY = 5,
	PS_ATTACK_NATIVES = 5,
	PS_SCORCH_EARTH = 25,
	PS_CHANGE_GOVERNMENT = 100,
	PS_CHANGE_CULTURE = 25,
	PS_HARSH_TREATMENT = 5,
	PS_REDUCE_WAREXHAUSTION = 50,
	PS_FACTION_BOOST = 10,

What was the power boost line in code?

EDIT: Went through the tech files, nothing in there increasing power.
There are modifiers decreasing the power cost of major things (techs, ideas - I'm not sure about buildings) so I guess these will have to do.

 

[Alley]

And wth is RNG? 6 years of EU modding and I've never heard that acronym.

should have, "random number generator"
In EU-IV terms it can be more specific though.

 

[Xia]

What was the power boost line in code?

Simply "Power = x" in the technology groups file. In said technologies file it just adds a flat modifier to the entire group (so you get say -1 ADM/DIP/MIL power with Indian, change the number to a positive and it would be a positive)

Gonna shove it onto a building and test it with my modded demo to see what happens; probably won't work but eh, I'll see.

 

[Dafool]

It appears that there is no modifier to add regular power points to a specific category. These are simply controlled by the defines and tech files, which means we can alter the values but can't expand its usage. Quite disappointing.

 

[Xia]

As expected, my plan failed to work.

 

[unmerged(752132)]

Oh...great. So the power cost of a building is just some set rate? Because it's not listed in the code. I really wasn't expecting buildings to cost both power and money.

Without any modifiers for power, there doesn't seem to be any way to increase power gain over time. Am I correct?

And wth is RNG? 6 years of EU modding and I've never heard that acronym.

The lack of increase power gain is to stop you from snowballing and ending up with the problems EU3 had of mid-to late game tedium where all your doing is micromanaging, putting down rebels, and fighting increasingly easy wars to finish conquering the world. Its a really nice feature. It's more realistic. Even a major emperor can be beaten.

 

[Battlecry]

As expected, my plan failed to work.

Yeah we had similar issues modding HOI3 - buildings can't support much in the way of changes.

The lack of increase power gain is to stop you from snowballing and ending up with the problems EU3 had of mid-to late game tedium where all your doing is micromanaging, putting down rebels, and fighting increasingly easy wars to finish conquering the world. Its a really nice feature. It's more realistic. Even a major emperor can be beaten.

Yes I can see the intention. I'm not criticizing anything, just trying to understand the system for both gameplay and modding purposes. I really want modifiers for monarch power, if its going to be such a central element of gameplay. Not being able to fool around with it will be limiting, ad extremis.

 

[chudo]

You are looking at it the wrong way, you should not focus on getting more power but finding ways to spend less - building universities for example or intentionally getting behind in tech level to get neighbor bonus to tech, also advisors for lower stability cost or research at the right time. I found out that with Portugal its much better to only invest in diplomatic and military ideas in the beginning and only go for admin tech to get 2nd and 3rd idea groups. This way u only spend 400 instead of 500 power and u get your national ideas which are pretty good, and later when you have to research tech you only spend 300+something points due to neighbor bonus. Im sure there are more ways to lower cost later, like the idea for 20% build cost reduction which saves you 2 points per building

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

You are looking at it the wrong way, you should not focus on getting more power but finding ways to spend less - building universities for example or intentionally getting behind in tech level to get neighbor bonus to tech, also advisors for lower stability cost or research at the right time. I found out that with Portugal its much better to only invest in diplomatic and military ideas in the beginning and only go for admin tech to get 2nd and 3rd idea groups. This way u only spend 400 instead of 500 power and u get your national ideas which are pretty good, and later when you have to research tech you only spend 300+something points due to neighbor bonus. Im sure there are more ways to lower cost later, like the idea for 20% build cost reduction which saves you 2 points per building

Does the 20% reduction for buildings apply to the cost in gold, points, or both?

 

[Battlecry]

You are looking at it the wrong way, you should not focus on getting more power but finding ways to spend less - building universities for example or intentionally getting behind in tech level to get neighbor bonus to tech, also advisors for lower stability cost or research at the right time. I found out that with Portugal its much better to only invest in diplomatic and military ideas in the beginning and only go for admin tech to get 2nd and 3rd idea groups. This way u only spend 400 instead of 500 power and u get your national ideas which are pretty good, and later when you have to research tech you only spend 300+something points due to neighbor bonus. Im sure there are more ways to lower cost later, like the idea for 20% build cost reduction which saves you 2 points per building

If there were modifiers available for everything that costs power, I would agree. There aren't. Again I'm looking at this through code, not gameplay. For instance, in a mod, I can't add any way to gain power other than whats already there. And I can't simulate it through cost savings, because there's only modifiers for ideas and tech. So I'm concerned.

 

[Maldenic]

You are looking at it the wrong way, you should not focus on getting more power but finding ways to spend less - building universities for example or intentionally getting behind in tech level to get neighbor bonus to tech, also advisors for lower stability cost or research at the right time. I found out that with Portugal its much better to only invest in diplomatic and military ideas in the beginning and only go for admin tech to get 2nd and 3rd idea groups. This way u only spend 400 instead of 500 power and u get your national ideas which are pretty good, and later when you have to research tech you only spend 300+something points due to neighbor bonus. Im sure there are more ways to lower cost later, like the idea for 20% build cost reduction which saves you 2 points per building

Bear in mind though that each tech has multiple effects, unlike an idea which just does one thing (albeit a more marked increase in that one thing than a tech gives). Also, in terms of score/ranking each tech is worth double what an idea is, making tech more cost efficient if you only care about "winning". Not that most people will really pay any attention to score. But, yes, there is something to be said for a strategy where you deliberately keep a level or two behind in tech for monarch point efficiency's sake.

 

[Thanik]

If there were modifiers available for everything that costs power, I would agree. There aren't. Again I'm looking at this through code, not gameplay. For instance, in a mod, I can't add any way to gain power other than whats already there. And I can't simulate it through cost savings, because there's only modifiers for ideas and tech. So I'm concerned.

You can add dip/mil/adm points by events. Once per year 12 adm power for example, or something like that

 

[chudo]

Does the 20% reduction for buildings apply to the cost in gold, points, or both?

I have to test it first but I'm pretty sure it includes points too like it includes upkeep in the case of unit cost

If there were modifiers available for everything that costs power, I would agree. There aren't. Again I'm looking at this through code, not gameplay. For instance, in a mod, I can't add any way to gain power other than whats already there. And I can't simulate it through cost savings, because there's only modifiers for ideas and tech. So I'm concerned.

I don't know about modifiers, there certainly should be some but I suggest you wait for the whole game and try it first to at least see how it works in order to decide on the values you want

Bear in mind though that each tech has multiple effects, unlike an idea which just does one thing (albeit a more marked increase in that one thing than a tech gives). Also, in terms of score/ranking each tech is worth double what an idea is, making tech more cost efficient if you only care about "winning". Not that most people will really pay any attention to score. But, yes, there is something to be said for a strategy where you deliberately keep a level or two behind in tech for monarch point efficiency's sake.

Techs have no value unless you actually need their effects, like in Portugal's case you don't need military tech if you get allied with Castile and intend to colonize only. So ideas are better since every idea gets 1/3 of a national one. Same goes for diplomatic tech, with every other country you will need at least DT7 for colonial range but not Portugal because you get +75% range which is enough (160*1.75 = 280, Brazil is at 180 and Caribbean at 250). When you get your National ideas up to the point you want techs are good and you get them cheaper.