Discovery versus trade Maps....

[unmerged(703)]

While playing I suddenly realize a very important issue in the point calculations....

To discover the whole world you get around 500 points. If you just trade maps you DON'T get anything....

Why is this an issue ?

Well, if you are playing a game and try to win on points (without the task part), the discovery points are pretty important.
In my case I was playing Sweden, not very impressive in discoveries ;-). I ended up in a war with Spain.
At that time I only new about Northern America.....
In a sea battle I got all the maps of Spain (!). That was good, except I got behind in the point battle......

Maybe there should be some points in the either war superity or in the diplomacy of trading maps.....

Just to tell you I had to take China, Japan, the Indian nations as well as half of Europe before I caught up with Spain again.....

So a tip... Don't trade maps if you want to win on points ;-)

------------------
bmolsson
*Just passing by*

 

[Oranje]

You may have a point bmolsson,

On the other hand trading maps can get you on a colonizing path a lot earlier, and establishing colonies gets you a lot of points as well. Guess it's sort of a trade off.
Trading maps I don't really see as a problem in the game; getting all of a country's maps after a won sea battle however is far too easy.
Maps should be split for trading, spying and gaining purposes in the different map area's within the game imho.
That way you could accomplish that not all of the map becomes visible at once when you get access to another country's maps.
I've often encountered the situation where I didn't even need my first explorer anymore.
Explorers are too succesful anyway.
Also, random explorers should only be available for a short period (i've got 2 random conquistadors in my current game that have already been around for some 60 years or so, and they still don't show signs of old age .


------------------
greetings, Oranje
Link to my EU fanpage, includes a FAQ section

Common sense is the set of prejudices acquired at age eighteen.
Albert Einstein

 

[unmerged(860)]

If you trade maps, you can ebstablish some far-flung colony, and keep building it up to a city, and then go exploring from out there.

both have a role.,

 

[unmerged(703)]

I don't think the placing of a colony gives a better point, or does it ???



------------------
bmolsson
*Just passing by*

 

[unmerged(358)]

It sure does.... You get a harbor at a distant spot, which is a necessity if you want to keep your explorer. You send him out for about 9 months and then send him back to port, and then out again.
My problem is that you get way too many maps too easy. Especially Portugal which as an AI has a small army protecting it's core province, and has a capital accesible through the sea. As well as they usually never have anything else than lvl 2 fortification guarding it. That is a public library of maps... The only problem with taking Portugal's capital is that they often have powerful allies...but that simply means you have to bide your time a little....

Cobos

------------------
If you are not part of the solution you are part of the precipitate.

 

[unmerged(641)]

In my earlier games I always have tried to explore as much as possible to get
VPs but I think if you don't play Spain,Portugal, England or France it's no use
it's better to trade maps. The most VPs I've seen for a country (Spain) in any of my
games are around 400 points for exploring.

In my over ten GC games normally the AI-countries starts to loss points around 2500. So I don't think that the pointsadvantage for the exploring countries gets
means that much.

 

[unmerged(703)]

Well, my last game as Sweden ended with Spain having 5842 points with 511 from exploration......

I had more though, but that did not happen until around 1720.....



------------------
bmolsson
*Just passing by*

 

[unmerged(452)]

Originally posted by bmolsson:
While playing I suddenly realize a very important issue in the point calculations....

To discover the whole world you get around 500 points. If you just trade maps you DON'T get anything....

I assumed you only get discovery points for the 'firsts'. If you are the first (European?) nation to enter a given square of Terra Incognita. This would mean that getting maps does not take away points from you, since your 'discovery' of squares already discovered by another European would not get you any points.

/zwingli

 

[unmerged(90)]

I agree that you should only get the full geographical knowledge of a country when capturing its capitla city.
At sea, you should get only the maps of this sea or at least restricted ones. I a m not sure that a Spanish captain cruising between Spain and Cuba should have maps of Indian and Pacifc Ocean.
Moreover, trading maps should be made a little more of a bargain (but too much programming for EU1, perhaps for EU2). Tell me what region you are interested in, I tell you what interest me.
ie Great Lakes area versus Caribean, CHinese Coast versus Australia, etc.

 

[unmerged(673)]

Originally posted by yndenwal:
I agree that you should only get the full geographical knowledge of a country when capturing its capitla city.
At sea, you should get only the maps of this sea or at least restricted ones. I a m not sure that a Spanish captain cruising between Spain and Cuba should have maps of Indian and Pacifc Ocean.
Moreover, trading maps should be made a little more of a bargain (but too much programming for EU1, perhaps for EU2). Tell me what region you are interested in, I tell you what interest me.
ie Great Lakes area versus Caribean, CHinese Coast versus Australia, etc.

That's right, and it would be more accurate historically.

Maybe ,you only could get all the maps if the capital is captured. Other way is fantasy.

 

[unmerged(703)]

Well, realims here would in that case also include 'technological transfer' of maps as well. I am sure that media reported about discoveries as well.....
In reality this would mean that you will during (for example) 10 years see all the provinces that your neighbour sees. This would 'spread' knowledge from the different ends of the world.
Being neighbour with other countries would be more important.
Now you could have plus and minus factors depending on language, religion, relation etc.....

Maybe the 'value' of exploration should be something like this:

* 2 points for a 'Historical large discovery'
Like 'Found America'
* 1 point for each 'first at a province'
* 1/2 point for 'traded' or 'captured' knowledge
* 0.1 points for technological transfer

Just some thoughts.....

------------------
bmolsson
*Just passing by*

 

[unmerged(924)]

Originally posted by bmolsson:

* 2 points for a 'Historical large discovery'
Like 'Found America'

With total score about 5000, 2 points does not do much. I would suggest at least 50 for 'large' discovery.

MxM

 

[BiB]

I was fooling around a bit in European wars waiting for my first explorer but when he actualy arrived I already had knowledge of the African and American coast and the whole of India by trading around maps. Which seems a bit too easy.

Though irl maps were commercialised in those days so even without ever doing any discoveries or trade maps u eventually should get more info. Just not this fast.