Disbanding Germany''s navy

[SacremPyrobolum]

Should I just disband the navy that Germany gets to start with? I focus on Battleship/destroyer fleets as them anyways and never research any LC/HC/BC techs or doctrines. That leadership and manpower would be better off in my uboats, army, or science core than getting BTFOed by the Royal Navy.

PS. Where can I deploy my uboats so as to not get BTFOed by the Royal Navy? I also can't find a view that shows me their trade routs, so i have to guess and deploy them to Gibraltar and the west side of the channel, but they keep dying. I guess that is because that is where the navy is....

 

[feye1]

Should I just disband the navy that Germany gets to start with? I focus on Battleship/destroyer fleets as them anyways and never research any LC/HC/BC techs or doctrines. That leadership and manpower would be better off in my uboats, army, or science core than getting BTFOed by the Royal Navy.

PS. Where can I deploy my uboats so as to not get BTFOed by the Royal Navy? I also can't find a view that shows me their trade routs, so i have to guess and deploy them to Gibraltar and the west side of the channel, but they keep dying. I guess that is because that is where the navy is....

No, the starting fleet of Germany isn't that great, but it can take down some decent Allied fleets. The manpower gain from deleting it is not much and really not worth it. The ships can be used block the Allied fleets during landings, engage them to do as much damage as possible before you smash the Battleships in the fight or you can just use them as a distraction fleet.

U boats near Spanish Coast - Madeira, the Red Sea, Gibraltar, entrance English Channel, South Africa, Maladives-Colombo, Singapore.

But convoys that got hit often change route, in the end you can block the entire Atlantic + Med Sea with about 20 long range subs and hit the Allies very, very hard.

 

[unmerged(715229)]

With three pairs of of lvl 4 subs you can block almost the complete atlantic (in a sort of bow) from the portugese coast almost up to iceland.
I put my subs on defensive or passive stance for that on aggressive they get wiped (in my games).

 

[Kovax]

Those obsolete BCs are great for pinning a RN fleet in place while your land-based air units tear it apart. I generally break off before I lose them, but if the prospect of sinking a couple of UK BBs is looking good enough, I may risk keeping them engaged, since they're "semi-expendable" at that point. Taking out a couple of UK ships beats voluntarily disbanding them.

My favorite spots for convoy hunting are generally around 1 province away from the Spanish coast. Centering them on a coastal sea province limits the number of provinces they can stray into, increasing the odds of being caught, but moving them one province out allows them to stray into the shipping lanes, then disengage and force the opponent to cover a lot more sea area to find them.

 

[21oliver]

Ive lost count of how many times ive conquered the UK with simply the starting German fleet. They do have value.

 

[Secret Master]

Unless you are abusing CGM by deleting the starting fleet and building a new one with the IC, I'd keep the starting German fleet.

Here's the thing:

Even obsolete naval assets like crappy BCs and old CAs can be used for shore bombardment in the Baltic, for drawing out the RN so you can sink it with modern NAVs, or even sending the RN on a wild goose chase while you use more modern ships to push an invasion of Gibraltar or Dover. And the old crappy subs, while they won't last forever when raiding, still spread the RN out in an attempt to protect her sea lanes. The AI has no way of knowing whether your subs are Type XI modern subs or crappy old ones until it hunts them down and kills them. (Human players are a bit smarter in this regard.)

You can even try to sucker the RAF or USAAF into disadvantageous air combats by parking the German navy in Brittany and daring them to bomb it. You then wait with 25% of the Luftwaffe in the area and shred them if they try. Fleet in being? How about "Fleet being a pain in the..."

 

[DKoW]

In find that the naval aspect for the Germans is rather inconsequential, when you take into consideration that the UK AI just doesn't make invasions.
Honestly, I've had many play through where, after France, I've completely ignored the western theatre.

While I'm away destroying Russia, I'm building a couple of extra ships, but mostly I use land based, CAGs or Close Air Support to destroy the RN in the English channel using my navy, as bait to lure the British ships to their death. Then when I'm happy that the majority of the navy is destroyed, then I land troops in Scotland, and then land more on the south coast.

Its not even a challenge anymore.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

In find that the naval aspect for the Germans is rather inconsequential, when you take into consideration that the UK AI just doesn't make invasions.
Honestly, I've had many play through where, after France, I've completely ignored the western theatre.

While I'm away destroying Russia, I'm building a couple of extra ships, but mostly I use land based, CAGs or Close Air Support to destroy the RN in the English channel using my navy, as bait to lure the British ships to their death. Then when I'm happy that the majority of the navy is destroyed, then I land troops in Scotland, and then land more on the south coast.

Its not even a challenge anymore.

CAS works as well as naval bombers?

 

[Rauko]

CAS works as well as naval bombers?

they are better than TAC on this, but due to their short range are useful mainly in straits

 

[DKoW]

CAS works as well as naval bombers?

They've never let me down if that's what you mean. Routinely they help my navy destroy between 3 and 5 big ships in most naval engagements.

Recently I've switched to mostly land based CAG instead, while my CAS go with the army into Russia. The results are still good, but it takes a bit more time for the RN to die.

 

[Kovax]

I tend to build one group of 3xNAV right from the start to boost my twin-engine aircraft Practical, since their cost is slightly cheaper than TAC. While CAS is able to sink ships, NAV will do so more easily, and can do so further from shore if the opportunity requires it. Since Defensiveness and Toughness were never fixed for aircraft (they were only doing 1% of what was intended, until the final patch for the SF expansion at least fixed the land units), the pitiful defensive stats of CAS aren't a problem, but the short range definitely is.

 

[DKoW]

I tend to build one group of 3xNAV right from the start to boost my twin-engine aircraft Practical, since their cost is slightly cheaper than TAC. While CAS is able to sink ships, NAV will do so more easily, and can do so further from shore if the opportunity requires it. Since Defensiveness and Toughness were never fixed for aircraft (they were only doing 1% of what was intended, until the final patch for the SF expansion at least fixed the land units), the pitiful defensive stats of CAS aren't a problem, but the short range definitely is.

As said, I now prefer to make CAGs instead of CAS. I did toy around with the idea of building NAVs, but since the NAV and CAGs both have the same offensive stats against naval units, and since i was also already buildimg INT and CAS I went with the cheaper CAGs to make more use of the small aircraft construction practicals.

To this day I have never built TACs. Don't need them since I have several CAS squadrons to do their dirty work.

 

[Secret Master]

CAS works as well as naval bombers?

The thing about CAS is that it is cheaper than NAV for short range stuff: bombing the Channel and so on. It's poor range means it can't be used to support operations of any significant distance.

However, I should point out that in the long run, NAVs have more firepower to throw at ships. CAS cannot benefit from air launched torpedoes the same way NAVs can. As tech increases, NAVs and CAGs become much better at killing ships than CAS. But if we're talking about 1939 as Germany, CAS without gainful employment can be used to secure the Channel.

 

[21oliver]

Two things...

1 - The UK WILL attack the West (often Northern German ports around Denmark) if not well protected, ive seen this countless times.

2 - Depending on what your objectives and style is (play to win, historical etc...) determines so many factors, there is no one answer. I can take the British Isles with my starting fleet. If i choose to invade early then i often spend no effort on defending the skies above Europe or often on any navy, unless i have plans to go across the ocean. I almost never defeat a "naval" (US, UK, Japan, Italy etc...) nation's navy, I typically defeat the nation and the navy is no longer an issue. Unless i play a game where by i want to get involved in naval conflict or purposely to defeat the opposition's navy. I dont believe i have ever done shore bombardment, and 99% of the time never build Navs. While there are benefits to such things im just saying they arent necessary, it depends upon your style, goals, house rules etc...

 

[GarfunkeL]

In find that the naval aspect for the Germans is rather inconsequential, when you take into consideration that the UK AI just doesn't make invasions.
Honestly, I've had many play through where, after France, I've completely ignored the western theatre.

In every GER game I've had in FTM and TFH - vanilla or mods - the UK AI performs invasions against Festung Europa, usually in North-Germany or Netherlands, UNLESS I have every port strongly garrisoned. And one GAR brigade is not enough, the AI will still invade the neighbouring provinces and take over the port. This experience is also shared by quite a number of posters, as the common tip is to put divisions in each port to stop UK AI from performing suicidal invasions too early in the game, so I have no clue where your experience is coming from.

 

[Secret Master]

In every GER game I've had in FTM and TFH - vanilla or mods - the UK AI performs invasions against Festung Europa, usually in North-Germany or Netherlands, UNLESS I have every port strongly garrisoned. And one GAR brigade is not enough, the AI will still invade the neighbouring provinces and take over the port. This experience is also shared by quite a number of posters, as the common tip is to put divisions in each port to stop UK AI from performing suicidal invasions too early in the game, so I have no clue where your experience is coming from.

This is my experience as well.

I think the UK AI is programmed to hesitate with invasions if Germany isn't at war with the Soviets and/or the USA, but they will do it. In fact, that's why I bothered developing a manpower/officer/IC efficient method for covering the entire continent. I got tired of either repelling these invasions as a distraction from Barbarossa or as being unfair to the AI (since the AI would launch what amounted to suicide invasions when it couldn't see the armored reaction force sitting south of Paris).

 

[Pacius Ferox]

If it's the AI Germany, UK tends to wipe out their navy by '39. It's not a contest, really. Not happens though, if I play UK...

 

[Oof]

I find the starting KM pretty useful. Before I start building CV, I actually add two BB as soon as the first round of research on BB is finished in 1936. And sometimes I even build a 2nd pair as soon as the first ones are finished. In the mean time I also research CV and CL techs. I try to get the CV techs up to the 1938 or 1940 level before I start building CV’s. I usually have a CL in my production queue all the time, since I need some proper CL’s for my CV and can use the practicals. I might build some DD, but the focus is CL, BB and CV and subs of course.

The starting Fleet plus the BB’s and CV’s are used to support the invasion of the USA, but in most games as Germany I don’t have the necessary IC available to build CV till I start Barbarossa.

 

[grumphie]

This is my experience as well.

I think the UK AI is programmed to hesitate with invasions if Germany isn't at war with the Soviets and/or the USA, but they will do it. In fact, that's why I bothered developing a manpower/officer/IC efficient method for covering the entire continent. I got tired of either repelling these invasions as a distraction from Barbarossa or as being unfair to the AI (since the AI would launch what amounted to suicide invasions when it couldn't see the armored reaction force sitting south of Paris).

out of intrest - what is this magical effiecient garrison/invasion defence force you speak off?

 

[Secret Master]

out of intrest - what is this magical effiecient garrison/invasion defence force you speak off?

4 divisions of 4xMIL in every single port in in France, Benelux, and Germany (excluding the Baltic). The IC costs are a pittance, and each brigade only costs 10 officers compared to the standard 100 officers per brigade for things like INF. And while it seems like a lot of manpower, MIL uses less manpower per brigade than INF. And, if for some reason you need more manpower later, you can either upgrade the brigades to something useful or just disband them and recycle the manpower.