When I click on "Diplomacy" after having selected a region of another nation, I see a value for my opinion of them, and I see a value for their opinion of me. But I don't see a value for something called "Diplomatic Relations." Where do I find that? I ask because some tooltips refer to this concept.
"Diplomatic Relations?"
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Right click on your own county to open the Diplomacy tab of your county. You will notice near the top of the page there is a value 3/4 or something like that. That is the Diplomatic relations counter which varies from country to country. Basically it means you can only ally/guarentee/vassal/RM only a given number of countries for free before it starts eating your Diplomacy Points(DP).
Okay, thanks, that helped. It looks like your "Diplomatic Relations" score with a country is the same as your "Their opinion of you" score, but only if you've got a diplomat sent over to them (I think?) Otherwise, you have no "Diplomatic Relations" score with them, regardless of what your "Their opinion of you" score might be.
Sounds right?
Sounds right?
No, no, no. You are confusing several subjects here. "Diplomatic Relations" is not a score.
"Diplomatic Relations" is the number of slots you have available to maintain interactions with other countries without penalty. The default starting amount is 4. Every instance of alliance, marriage, military access, personal union, vassalage, or guaranteeing with a unique nation occupies one slot. Allying four nations means you are using 4 / 4 relations slots. Allying AND marrying one nation does not add a slot used beyond 1. Therefore, if you ally AND marry the same 4 nations, you are still using 4 / 4. If you asked them all for military access, you are still using 4 / 4. However, if you allied, married, OR asked for military access from another nation, you would be at 5 / 4 and receive a -1 diplo point / month penalty. If you allied one nation, had access from a second, and married a third, you would be at 3 / 4 slots used.
Diplomacy idea set adds +2 relations. Expansion idea set adds +2 relations. Becoming Emperor of the HRE adds +2 relations. Various countries (France, Milan, Savoy) have +relations as a national idea.
Every slot you occupy above your limit gives a cumulative -1 diplo point per month income. There is no upper bound to how many relations you can have, but if you maintain too many, you'll have no diplo point income at all.
"Relations" itself means your opinion of a nation or theirs of you. This is completely independent of diplomatic relations. You could easily end up using a relations slot from a country that hates your guts (example : you married a nation early on, but then become their biggest rival), and you might be on good terms with a nation (+25 religion, +100 boosted relations) but have no diplomatic relations slots used (because you haven't allied, married, or gotten access from them)
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This is showing Diplomatic Relations. I have a soft limit of 7, and I am using 7 of them. I have 4 marriages + alliances, 2 alliances, and one vassal. For convenience, the breakdown also shows each nation's opinion of your nation as well as the interactions causing slot usage.
I have that limit because of +4 (Base) +2 (Diplomacy) +1 (Milan NI)
Note that anytime you are under your soft limit, countries you are on decent terms with will tend to ask you for alliances and marriages.
I have that limit because of +4 (Base) +2 (Diplomacy) +1 (Milan NI)
Note that anytime you are under your soft limit, countries you are on decent terms with will tend to ask you for alliances and marriages.
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How sure are you about this? I ask because I am told (in game) that to diplo-vassalize, I must have "diplomatic relations" of at least "+190." That looks like a score, not a number of slots! Surely there are not 190 slots.
How sure are you about this? I ask because I am told (in game) that to diplo-vassalize, I must have "diplomatic relations" of at least "+190." That looks like a score, not a number of slots! Surely there are not 190 slots.
Diplomatic relations is like the SS above. How many relations you can have with different nations.
Relations score is how well you are liked with a country. To get 190 relations you should get a royal marriage, alliance, guarantee their safety, give them military access, send them a gift, and have the same rival.
Then there is also Diplomatic reputation. This will affect things like how fast you annex a country and whether you can vassalize a country or not.
How sure are you about this? I ask because I am told (in game) that to diplo-vassalize, I must have "diplomatic relations" of at least "+190." That looks like a score, not a number of slots! Surely there are not 190 slots.
Did you look at the screenshot? Or read beyond those two lines?
"Their opinion of you" and "your opinion of them" are both relations scores. You might have mentioned something along the lines of "I'm trying to vassalize someone" in the OP.
Okay, I had thought it said "Diplomatic Relations" have to be +190, but it just says "Relations" have to be +190. In that case, I would still have needed to ask what "relations" means, but as a result of this thread, I see it basically is the same as the "their opinion of you" score.
Your screenshot in the next post isn't visible to me.
I did read the rest of it, and the problem was, I actually think you're wrong. I think the number of slots is called "diplomats," not "diplomatic relations." But this is not important, and I'm new here, so I left it alone rather than addressing it.
Well, I thought I understood, but now I have another question. if both of those are relations scores, then which one has to be +190? All it says is that "relations" have to be at least +190.
Honestly, I don't see why that would have made a difference. The question's clear either way.
No, it's not, and you're still not understanding things here, in no small part because you weren't clear in what you were asking.
I don't know how to put it any clearer. Those slots are NOT "diplomats". Your number of diplomats is another thing entirely. That is why I included a screenshot which shows what diplomatic relations are.
If you want to diplo-vassalize someone, their opinion of you has to be +190 or higher.
What part of "Where do I find out what my 'diplomatic relations' with a country are" is unclear? It's completely clear, you answered it, it turned out I was using the wrong term, and progress was made. All of this is to the good! But clarity in the OP was never the problem. What the OP asks is clear, and was clearly answered.
Please don't worry about whether you've put it clearly or not. I didn't think you were being unclear, I thought you were wrong. (You can't be wrong if you're not clear--if you're not clear, you're not even wrong.)
But now you're correcting me, by telling me that the number of diplomats available can be different from the number of diplomatic relations I can have. I accept that! I appreciate the information! I don't understand it quite yet--I thought the number of diplomats I have available is the same as the number of relations I can maintain without penalty--but that is probably because I've only been playing for two hours!
As I said, I cannot see your screenshot.
Yes, I've figured that out as a result of comments (yours and others') in this thread. Again, thank you!
*I assume you're patient, since you keep helping me, but I have to say your first words to me in this thread connoted the opposite of a patient attitude. But first impressions are often wrong.
The scale is from -200 to +200. They need an opinion of you at +190 and you need an opinion of them at a positive value. In order to get +190 you have to take actions that will improve your opinion of them anyway so the latter usual doesn't matter but if you've recently been at war with them or something then it is possible to get one but not the other. Improve relations gives you +100. Royal marriage (which is also a prerequisite) gets you +25. Same religion (a prerequisite of royal marrage) is +25. Alliance is +50. Various events and recent behaviors can add positive and negative scores to your relations and theirs.
None of this is relevant if you are vasselising them as part of a peace treaty.
None of this is relevant if you are vasselising them as part of a peace treaty.
Thanks Greyhind, that is useful information for the future.
Just to prevent people from expending needless effort here--I'm actually not interested in how to diplo-vassalize. I only mentioned it as an example of a case where the concept of 'relations' is mentioned, to clarify what I'm talking about.
Mainly, I wanted to know what 'relations' refers to. Looks like if I'm required to have 'relations' over some value or other, what I need to be concerned about is raising their opinion of me.
Just to prevent people from expending needless effort here--I'm actually not interested in how to diplo-vassalize. I only mentioned it as an example of a case where the concept of 'relations' is mentioned, to clarify what I'm talking about.
Mainly, I wanted to know what 'relations' refers to. Looks like if I'm required to have 'relations' over some value or other, what I need to be concerned about is raising their opinion of me.
And they say that the diplo-system is too shallow...
There are 4 components to the diplomatic system:
1. Diplomatic relation
2. Diplomatic relation slot
3. Opinion
4. Diplomats
1. Diplomatic relation is any kind of agreement between you and another state. Royal mariage, Alliance, Military access and so on.
2. Diplomatic relation slot is a soft limit on how many diplomatic relations you can have at the same time before incuring a penalty. The default value is 4, but can be increased with certain ideas.
3. Opinion is a score that shows what a certain country thinks of you. You have this with every country in the world that you know of. It ranges from -200 to +200 and can be upped or down by your diplomatic actions. Start a war against a nation and their opinion of you will fall. Ally them and it will rise.
4. Diplomats are dudes you send out to arrange a diplomatic mission in order to gain a diplomatic relation. He sets up a Royal marriage, or secure an alliance. Or declear war.
Hope that clarifies things.
There are 4 components to the diplomatic system:
1. Diplomatic relation
2. Diplomatic relation slot
3. Opinion
4. Diplomats
1. Diplomatic relation is any kind of agreement between you and another state. Royal mariage, Alliance, Military access and so on.
2. Diplomatic relation slot is a soft limit on how many diplomatic relations you can have at the same time before incuring a penalty. The default value is 4, but can be increased with certain ideas.
3. Opinion is a score that shows what a certain country thinks of you. You have this with every country in the world that you know of. It ranges from -200 to +200 and can be upped or down by your diplomatic actions. Start a war against a nation and their opinion of you will fall. Ally them and it will rise.
4. Diplomats are dudes you send out to arrange a diplomatic mission in order to gain a diplomatic relation. He sets up a Royal marriage, or secure an alliance. Or declear war.
Hope that clarifies things.