Diplomatic negotiations are missing in EUIV.

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WKIII

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England and Portugal were colonial allies for centuries, for most of the time since the age of discovery. And the alliance still exists even today.
But in EUIV, once you've colonised a single province in a certain colonial region, then one of your closest allies (in this case, Portugal) may become totally hostile to you (like -200) just because of that single province, then dissolve the alliance, issue a massive embargo, then even rival you and potentially may declare a colonial war on you in the next years.

All this stab in the back just because of a single colony. single colony!!! totally ruined all relations and trust between two great nations which historically were allied for the entire colonial era. Do you just realize how irrational this political decision making is? Even if thinking geopolitically, it doesn't worth to ruin such a great alliance and issue worldwide embargos between two colonial empires just because of a colonial conflict. In real life, such a mutual and bilateral trade embargo would totally destroy each-others' GDPs and HDIs since many important imports\exports from\into both empires would just suddenly halt and then will cause massive industrial strike, economical crisis, illegal trade and trafficking, increased piracy and increased crime rates\unrest in the colonial nations due to the sudden new trade restrictions and lack of critical consumer goods.

What instead should happen you ask? I say that if Portugal is really mad because of that single province then why not just make a negotiation with England? you know, like a civilised nation, that can diplomatically solve problems. Explain to the English colonists why it is such an important territory to their imperial interests and perhaps England will accept a province sell deal? why not? just like Russia sold Alaska to United States, just as Britain exchanged many colonial territories with the USA over the entire border of Canada and not only once, Just as France sold Louisiana entirely to the USA in order to avoid future wars and become closer allies against the common foe.

But no... in EUIV there are no negotiations in peacetime, A negotiation in EUIV appears only with enemies, as an aftermath of a violent struggle, destruction and bloodshed. Great work, paradox.
 
Last edited:

Arcaul

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Well you can't even have a situation where you can trade territory in a peace deal. Only one side can win a war. No "you give me this and I'll give you that" which basically makes for a lot of ahistorical historical wars if you bother to play the scenarios.
 

grommile

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The AI isn't smart enough to handle bilateral negotiations; making it participate in bilateral negotiations is, therefore, a way to make the game even easier for the meatbag than it already is.
 

Galu

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actually this is doable. Ai has a list of "(A)I want" provinces, so this is doable. Also it shoudln`t be that hard to implement new modificator "(A)I don`t want this province" or "(A)I want to colonize xxx region" I imagine this would be bugged as hell at beginng but eventually it would work.

Anyway for now, I`d love to have an option to BUY provinces, there`s a lot of situation when I really don`t want to wage total war over 1 province which is kind of useless to AI. Especially with still present "lenght of war" modificaotr which is literally "If you want a quick decisive war you will have to burn your enemy to the ground with nukes -.-"
 

grommile

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actually this is doable. Ai has a list of "(A)I want" provinces, so this is doable. Also it shoudln`t be that hard to implement new modificator "(A)I don`t want this province" or "(A)I want to colonize xxx region" I imagine this would be bugged as hell at beginng but eventually it would work.
There are two factors to making a good negotiation AI: it must be both reasonable (it must not offer deals that a moderately competent human player would never accept) and competent (it must not accept ostensibly-reasonable deals that a moderately competent human player would never accept).

Assessing a territorial exchange deal is a complex task, and one which humans tend to believe is an easy task. As such, per Moravec's paradox, it is probably a very hard task - and I offer as an exhibit the state of negotiation AI in other computer strategy games.
 

Meds

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Some time ago i played as Poland to get a couple of achievements (this was pre elective patch of some kind). I asked someone what they think would be neat and the said Polish America so although suboptimal perhaps i went with that and Europe turned into me being sandwiched between a hostile Russia and ottoman empire, and my ally and friend Austria. Austria turned grey. Austria decided Russia was the best ever and 800k soldiers stomped across my lands in search of Silesia. Hundreds of thousands died. Tonnes of gold spent. For 1 province. Seriously just send a message "best friend, silesia super important to me, give me? I may give you 100 for it. Else i think we may become enemies". I would also like negotiations where things can be swapped both ways. Maybe I'm willing to return that core to you if you are so dammed adamant that you must have it, but only if you stop that trade embargo. Our whatever.

Edit. Tapped the above on my phone so apologies for any spelling errors or autocorrect stuff.
 

spinoza013

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I've been suggesting peacetime Treaties and pre war ultimatums for a while now. Maybe one day.
 

WKIII

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Some time ago i played as Poland to get a couple of achievements (this was pre elective patch of some kind). I asked someone what they think would be neat and the said Polish America so although suboptimal perhaps i went with that and Europe turned into me being sandwiched between a hostile Russia and ottoman empire, and my ally and friend Austria. Austria turned grey. Austria decided Russia was the best ever and 800k soldiers stomped across my lands in search of Silesia. Hundreds of thousands died. Tonnes of gold spent. For 1 province. Seriously just send a message "best friend, silesia super important to me, give me? I may give you 100 for it. Else i think we may become enemies". I would also like negotiations where things can be swapped both ways. Maybe I'm willing to return that core to you if you are so dammed adamant that you must have it, but only if you stop that trade embargo. Our whatever.

Edit. Tapped the above on my phone so apologies for any spelling errors or autocorrect stuff.
Exactly, these wars doesn't appear only between colonial empires but with nearly every single middle-to-great power in this game. This game sometimes just feels so wrong. You usually need to "guess" what your allies' interests are, no explicit information on AI's plans at all in this game.
I don't even talk anymore about how arbitrary the AI's decision making is, or how the entire game tends to become historically senseless; But I am talking about the core principals of the international relations which are missing so badly in this so-called "Grand-Strategy" title. This game actually supposed to simulate at least in a basic level how really international relationships are being maintained between political entities.
 

anomalacaris

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As far as I see, it is extremely difficult for AI to get this type of things that appear natural for humans.
They still can't get peace treaties right, how you reckon they manage with serious negotiations?
I think MP is the way to go...
 

TheArchduke

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I've been suggesting peacetime Treaties and pre war ultimatums for a while now. Maybe one day.

Hmm, that feature is buried in the HOI code, is it not? Demand territory.