Diplomatic ideas

[Novacat]

Meh. Give me quality and offensive instead. I can live juggling 3 constantly employed diplomats. And 4 relations is enough, if barely, to maintain 3 vassals and an ally, with occassional mil access for short time getting paid in diplo points.

It is not even the diplomats. On the influence side, you get 25% Discount to diploannexation and -20% AE which means faster integration and less coalitions, on the diplomatic side you have 20% province cost reduction and the stabhit reduction. The extra diplomat, diplo relations, and diplo reputation are just extra bonuses.

The only miltech idea groups that are absolutly necessary are Offensive and Defensive. Offensive for forced march and better generals, defensive for the army tradition and morale. Quality, Quantity, and Aristocratic have their perks but there is nothing about them that are 'must have'. Given they still make amazing late-game picks over most Diplomatic/Administrative idea groups.

But then again, i find humanist rather unnecessary, contrary to the common wisdom. I would rather take religious and borg into one volk, one religion state.

Humanist or Religious are both equally valid choices. Given, I like Humanist better because it saves me more monarch points over the long run with the idea cost reduction and gives me a LOT more accepted cultures. Religious is also slightly weaker in 1.8 since the religious CB got indirectly nerfed by the war leader changes.

Overall, my list of must have idea groups for 1.8 are Offensive, Defensive, Diplomatic, Influence, Innovative, and Humanist
Quality got dropped because, after the 2.5% Discipline nerf, its a lot less valuable. Hell, countries like Brandenburg and Ottomans will still stomp even without it.
Administrative got dropped because, now that vassal feeding is much easier, you never have to core anything directly, and the whole reason for Administrative is to make coring easier.
Influence and Diplomatic got added on because they make huge conquests so much easier and painless.

 

[Outrider]

Administrative got dropped because, now that vassal feeding is much easier, you never have to core anything directly, and the whole reason for Administrative is to make coring easier.
Influence and Diplomatic got added on because they make huge conquests so much easier and painless.

I wouldn't entirely disregard administrative if using vassal feeding as a primary means of expansion . With influence, it opens up an ADM consuming policy (which you won't need if purely dealing with vassals), that can bring diploannex cost down -45%. If you have inbuilt cost reduction in NIs as well (i.e., France), you can get some really, really cheap (and fast) diploannex.

Idea selection in a mass-diploannex strategy is also somewhat dependent on gov type. For example, running Venice as an MR (oodles of DIP for annexation and unlimited ducats), you don't get passive LA decrease from gov, only from peace. In that case, the 75% LA after diploannex will be extremely slow, so you're going to want to be spamming the manual decision. I'm still getting the feel for the revamped rebel system, but I'd consider stacking religious, humanism, and plutocratic after influence, just to be able to spam -25% LA as often as possible.

If you're just playing in SP, you can overwhelm the AI with #s of troops or vassals with MIL bonuses of their own, so ideas granting unit pips or AT aren't quite as necessary as in MP.

 

[Novacat]

Idea selection in a mass-diploannex strategy is also somewhat dependent on gov type. For example, running Venice as an MR (oodles of DIP for annexation and unlimited ducats), you don't get passive LA decrease from gov, only from peace. In that case, the 75% LA after diploannex will be extremely slow, so you're going to want to be spamming the manual decision. I'm still getting the feel for the revamped rebel system, but I'd consider stacking religious, humanism, and plutocratic after influence, just to be able to spam -25% LA as often as possible.

I deliberately avoided niche situations. For example, I usually play in the Steppe so I almost always get Expansion for the CB, but if I was playing in Europe than Expansion would be useless for me.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

but then you are wasting precious mil mp on something that the diplo group does for you...gets you a France and Russia/Prussia/Sweden alliances!

Huh? What else are you going to spend mil points on? Buildings... and?

Adm is for coring, dip for annexing and culture converting, but mil?

 

[unmerged(2833)]

It is not even the diplomats. On the influence side, you get 25% Discount to diploannexation and -20% AE which means faster integration and less coalitions, on the diplomatic side you have 20% province cost reduction and the stabhit reduction. The extra diplomat, diplo relations, and diplo reputation are just extra bonuses.

The only miltech idea groups that are absolutly necessary are Offensive and Defensive. Offensive for forced march and better generals, defensive for the army tradition and morale. Quality, Quantity, and Aristocratic have their perks but there is nothing about them that are 'must have'. Given they still make amazing late-game picks over most Diplomatic/Administrative idea groups.

No military ideas are actually necessary. Well, no ideas are necessary. But they are certainly nice, and i would pick them over almost anything, unless i am playing England or Portugal or something.
While forced march is indeed quite important, morale is meh. You can throw more men to the same effect, so for example quantity does the same.

The annex discount is great, something i would pick it if i was interested in other modifiers. Or had an idea slot earlier than 1750. And i very, very rarely take province with dip costs, i avoid unjustified claims, its not hard. Stabhits can be maneuvered around with careful royal marriages placement. AE is most often managed by stacking better relations over time (which would again mean i would really like influence, since it got the previous religious modifier, but alas other ideas come before that)

Humanist or Religious are both equally valid choices. Given, I like Humanist better because it saves me more monarch points over the long run with the idea cost reduction and gives me a LOT more accepted cultures. Religious is also slightly weaker in 1.8 since the religious CB got indirectly nerfed by the war leader changes.

Overall, my list of must have idea groups for 1.8 are Offensive, Defensive, Diplomatic, Influence, Innovative, and Humanist
Quality got dropped because, after the 2.5% Discipline nerf, its a lot less valuable. Hell, countries like Brandenburg and Ottomans will still stomp even without it.
Administrative got dropped because, now that vassal feeding is much easier, you never have to core anything directly, and the whole reason for Administrative is to make coring easier.
Influence and Diplomatic got added on because they make huge conquests so much easier and painless.

Yes, its a matter of preference. Though converting gives more benefits for incrased point cost.

Quality gets 5% discipline and a bunch of combat ability boni. By the way, for ultimate military country, its quality, quantity, offensive, defensive, economic and innovative. Why these last two? Because economic gives two policies and innovative one, 20% inf and art combat ability and another 5% discipline.

 

[Viperswhip]

No military ideas are actually necessary. Well, no ideas are necessary. But they are certainly nice, and i would pick them over almost anything, unless i am playing England or Portugal or something.
While forced march is indeed quite important, morale is meh. You can throw more men to the same effect, so for example quantity does the same.

Forced March saves you incredible amounts of manpower in one situation, and a moderate amount and plenty of time in another, first to get to defensive location first, and second to kill a retreating army, hopefully before the end of the month. If you are fighting France, or any other big country frankly, then yes it's almost necessary, it's always my first military idea because I find them all a bit meh, full of nice stuff, but nothing that turns my crank like the +2 conversion strength from Religious, so I go for Offensive first, every time, because I will always end up fighting France or Muscovy, or the Ottos at some point.

 

[FrigidSoul]

Quality gets 5% discipline and a bunch of combat ability boni. By the way, for ultimate military country, its quality, quantity, offensive, defensive, economic and innovative. Why these last two? Because economic gives two policies and innovative one, 20% inf and art combat ability and another 5% discipline.

Do Admin ideas still open up that decision for +6% discipline?

 

[Novacat]

Do Admin ideas still open up that decision for +6% discipline?

That was removed when policies were released.

 

[AureliusBob]

Huh? What else are you going to spend mil points on? Buildings... and?

Adm is for coring, dip for annexing and culture converting, but mil?

I would say that staying ahead in mil tech during early game is more important than mil ideas. Also in early-mid game when youre not swimming in army tradition, it helps to try and keep up generals with lucky nations.

 

[FrigidSoul]

That was removed when policies were released.

Pity

 

[Novacat]

Quality gets 5% discipline and a bunch of combat ability boni. By the way, for ultimate military country, its quality, quantity, offensive, defensive, economic and innovative. Why these last two? Because economic gives two policies and innovative one, 20% inf and art combat ability and another 5% discipline.

Generally, event modifiers and NIs matter far more for power and discipline. Ottomans gets 15% Discipline, 20% Infantry power and 15% Cavalry power through NIs and event mods alone. Quality gets 5% Discipline and 10% combat ability to all unit types, which is not actually a whole lot. Economic is terrible, using an entire idea group for a single policy is complete waste. You want idea groups that give the most bang for your buck, and troop quality is only one thing you need. You also need idea groups that make conquest easier, and idea groups that reduce Monarch Point consumption.

My list of 'mandatory' Idea groups are generally the 'best' in that regard. Note that I only listed 6 total, you can fill the remaining 2 slots with your choice. Mil idea groups are great for this because, unlike Administrative and Diplomatic, stronger/more troops are always welcome.