Diplomatic ideas

[Viperswhip]

So, as Byzantium I chose Diplo first because of, well, largely the +1 relations, but there is other good stuff in there, including the +2 diplo rep idea, which I was specifically saving up for because I was wanting to annex a vassal I accidentally created whose ideas led to them being twice as expensive to annex.

To my shock, it did not lower the estimated time of completion. Now, I am crying. Is this intended?

 

[powerguy]

The way Diplo annexation works now having a higher Reputation will increase the rate that Diplo monarch point can be spent to annex, so as long as you have monarch points you should be able to annex faster. Note that if you have annexed another nation recently the negative Reputation modifier will negate the bonus from ideas.

The Influence idea group has a much more useful idea for diplo annexation, which reduces the overall cost of annexation by 25% (which definitely reduces the time required to annex).

 

[Viperswhip]

The way Diplo annexation works now having a higher Reputation will increase the rate that Diplo monarch point can be spent to annex, so as long as you have monarch points you should be able to annex faster. Note that if you have annexed another nation recently the negative Reputation modifier will negate the bonus from ideas.

The Influence idea group has a much more useful idea for diplo annexation, which reduces the overall cost of annexation by 25% (which definitely reduces the time required to annex).

Oh it's probably a previous annexation, I annex like crazy, you know, I didn't even look at influence because I badly needed the +1 relations. I don't think I can possibly hold off a military idea until 4th, so that's got to be next, already I am war taxing every single war, buying generals and building armories and forts, still 15 years ahead.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[AureliusBob]

Diplo group is extremely underrated.

-Reputation can get high enough where you can still ally two great powers even with the -50 malus
-High reputation also improves your chances of diplo-vassalizing
-amazing policies which when combined, can lower AE hits by 20%

 

[kitemasaki]

Diplo group is extremely underrated.

-Reputation can get high enough where you can still ally two great powers even with the -50 malus
-High reputation also improves your chances of diplo-vassalizing
-amazing policies which when combined, can lower AE hits by 20%

Its also amazing for the reduction in stability hits for declaring aggression wars. Perfect for rapidly expanding your empire or force feeding your vassals when you just can't seem to get a CB when you need one! The reduced tech cost is nice since you are saving points on annexing as well. The associated policies also make it a strong idea choice.

 

[Novacat]

Diplo group is extremely underrated.

Not really, 1.8 did buff diplomatic/influence a whole bunch. Prior to 1.8 it was not that great, now, however, both diplomatic and influence are uber.

 

[Gaamel]

Diplo and influence are quite similar in fact (+1 diplo relation and +2 reputation), but diplo really shines early game thanks to the extra diplomat, which is especially useful for certain countries with a lot of vassals to annex (france) or countries which need to improve relations here and there to secure alliances. If you plan to play the game of thrones, the diplo finisher allows you to claim thrones and declare war without the stab hit, which is VERY handy. If you manage to control the curia diplo is less useful, because you already have +1 diplomat and the breaking of marriages for free, but in 1.8 you cannot control it 24/7 like in 1.7.

 

[Viperswhip]

So it was +2 diplo rep that got me Castile, Austria and Poland (with Lith) as allies? I dumped Poland because they aint doing so hot.

 

[Frungy78]

If you want to vassal-annex in 1.8, you NEED relations slots. Annexing a moderate sized country can take 10 years now- that's 10 years of -1 diplomats. If you're trying to annex two countries at once to minimize the dip rep malus, that's both diplomats doing the same thing for a while. You won't be able to declare any wars, fabricate any claims, start any alliances, etc. You NEED that 3rd diplomat! Heck, having 4 would be great too.

With local autonomy making core-conquering less appealing, I imagine everyone will need to pick up a +1 diplomat idea early on (aristocratic, diplomatic, expansion, espionage).

Poland doesn't start as a great power, which is probably how you got their alliance. Same with Denmark, even with their two PUs.

 

[Incompetent]

Not really, 1.8 did buff diplomatic/influence a whole bunch. Prior to 1.8 it was not that great, now, however, both diplomatic and influence are uber.

Most of the idea groups can be uber depending on how you play, so you end up turning down some quite good idea groups in order to take a 'must have' idea group.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Not really, 1.8 did buff diplomatic/influence a whole bunch. Prior to 1.8 it was not that great, now, however, both diplomatic and influence are uber.

Meh. Give me quality and offensive instead. I can live juggling 3 constantly employed diplomats. And 4 relations is enough, if barely, to maintain 3 vassals and an ally, with occassional mil access for short time getting paid in diplo points.

Though if you fancy some heavy diplomatic game in the middle of Europe with all these countries, sure, diplo and influence is way more useful.

But then again, i find humanist rather unnecessary, contrary to the common wisdom. I would rather take religious and borg into one volk, one religion state.

 

[AureliusBob]

Meh. Give me quality and offensive instead

but then you are wasting precious mil mp on something that the diplo group does for you...gets you a France and Russia/Prussia/Sweden alliances!

 

[oblio-]

but then you are wasting precious mil mp on something that the diplo group does for you...gets you a France and Russia/Prussia/Sweden alliances!

Or even better, gives you Teutonic Order/Smolenks/Wallachia marches! (with the increased number of diplomatic relations you can keep around more vassals)
Who needs unreliable allies when you can have your own attack dogs?

 

[AureliusBob]

Or even better, gives you Teutonic Order/Smolenks/Wallachia marches! (with the increased number of diplomatic relations you can keep around more vassals)
Who needs unreliable allies when you can have your own attack dogs?

Hey France has been a loyal ally in almost every game I have played...well, that is until it wants my provinces in Indonesia. Then it hates me.

 

[Zqrfmb]

No mention of the 20% warscore cost reduction for provinces? every time I see "Full annexation: 110%", I mentally kick myself for not having diplo ideas.

 

[Lamahorse]

No mention of the 20% warscore cost reduction for provinces? every time I see "Full annexation: 110%", I mentally kick myself for not having diplo ideas.

Aka, vassalise Scotland in one war. :ninja:

 

[Rey]

I'd go for Influence before Diplomatic. IMO by doing this you optimize the vassal feeding strategy. Influence gives you nice expansion bonus, plus bonus from having vassals. While Diplomatic gives you an extra diplomat and improved relations bonus, in order to make you easier to annex those vassals later.

Influence = -20% Aggressive expansion impact, +50% Subject forcelimits contribution, -50% Unjustified demands, -25% Diplomatic annexation cost, -33% Time to fabricate claims, +25% Income from vassals.

Diplomatic = +1 Diplomats, +25% Improve relations, -20% Province warscore cost, -33% Cost of reducing war exhaustion, -10% Diplomatic technology cost, Lowered impact on stability from diplomatic actions.


Both ideas give you +2 Diplomatic reputation and +1 Diplomatic relations.

Plus, you don't really need military ideas when you have all those vassals with their armies plus allies.

 

[Viperswhip]

Okay, the malus for absorbing a vassal is -3, I have +2 Diplo from Ideas, a +2 Diplo Advisor, and a King with 4 Diplo. I have 0 diplo reputation when I look at my relations with other nations, what gives? Shouldn't I have at least +1 just from the 4-3?

 

[Denkt]

It has some very cool policies:

Administrative: an extra diplomat + faster envoys, good for any who like to play diplomatic + if you also get influence you can get even cheaper vassal annexation + alot of dip rep so you will annex them fast.

 

[Outrider]

Okay, the malus for absorbing a vassal is -3, I have +2 Diplo from Ideas, a +2 Diplo Advisor, and a King with 4 Diplo. I have 0 diplo reputation when I look at my relations with other nations, what gives? Shouldn't I have at least +1 just from the 4-3?

Scroll over your diprep on your diplomacy tab. Does that show anything else affecting it? or is 2+2-3 = 0?