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Mine ones.(..?)
1) Royal Union: King of country A makes Royal Union with country B, both countries would be united until death of King of country A. Then, all pre-union territories of country B would be returned to it, while all new gains in period of union is country A owned.
2) Incite a civil war: Inciting civil war is a very hard task. You must pay 100 for each province in where you want to begin revolt, in case that there is army, you must pay 1 D for each 1,000 of soldiers and 2 D for each 10 cannons. Succes depends on diplomatic skills of your monarch. In case of succes, your relations will be heavily decreased, but all provincies and armies you have bribed will rebel.
1) Royal Union: King of country A makes Royal Union with country B, both countries would be united until death of King of country A. Then, all pre-union territories of country B would be returned to it, while all new gains in period of union is country A owned.
2) Incite a civil war: Inciting civil war is a very hard task. You must pay 100 for each province in where you want to begin revolt, in case that there is army, you must pay 1 D for each 1,000 of soldiers and 2 D for each 10 cannons. Succes depends on diplomatic skills of your monarch. In case of succes, your relations will be heavily decreased, but all provincies and armies you have bribed will rebel.
One point on the general thread just caught my attention. Some of the problems with diplomacy is that the results are too predictable. I'd make the following changes to the existing rules
1) Acceptance of proposals to be made a little more random
2) The exact relationship is never know. Just general bands would do from beloathed friends to the dearest of enemies
This would stop certain obvious "abuses" and cause more diplomats to be wasted (anything to handicap the human player). It still wouldn't stop the "letter of insult - OK then how's about a Royal Marriage" problem but might mean that you have to adopt a clear cut "Claim throne - Royal Marriage" to be safe.
Also, probability of accepting when not good relations should also depend on whether you are viewed as potential threat or potential strategic partner.
Like the idea about political union. What about free trade area etc and these can be broken.
1) Acceptance of proposals to be made a little more random
2) The exact relationship is never know. Just general bands would do from beloathed friends to the dearest of enemies
This would stop certain obvious "abuses" and cause more diplomats to be wasted (anything to handicap the human player). It still wouldn't stop the "letter of insult - OK then how's about a Royal Marriage" problem but might mean that you have to adopt a clear cut "Claim throne - Royal Marriage" to be safe.
Also, probability of accepting when not good relations should also depend on whether you are viewed as potential threat or potential strategic partner.
Like the idea about political union. What about free trade area etc and these can be broken.
more diplomacy ideas
Apologies to those who've heard some of these before but I wanted to make sure they were picked up for EU2.
1) Claiming Provinces
We (and the AI) should be able to claim one or more provinces via diplomatic means, backed by the threat of war, and/or financial inducements.
The effect on reputation or BB rating would depend on whether you had a legitimate claim (eg province was previously taken from you by force) or were just bullying.
2) Provinces in peace negotiations
You should be able to offer/ accept a province in peace negotiations without actually occupying it first. E.g. you have a legitimate claim to Calais, and a casus belli, but tactically you decide to invade Ile de France and force the French to the negotiating table.
They are pleased to restore Calais to England in return for the release of their testicles.
What do the rest of you think?
3) Claiming the throne by ancestry
At present this seems to be just a more severe form of insult. It should be revised. Maybe you should be able to claim the throne - but only of certain countries. If so, there should be a slight possibility that they will accept your claim although some of the other country's provinces might then secede in disgust.
4) Tech knowledge and maps
It should be possible (note - not easy, or cheap, but possible) to trade research or maps, in exchange for something you have that's of value to the other side - military alliance, royal marriage, money, 20 warships, whatever.
In the case of knowledge you could advance one level by learning from a more advanced civilisation (assuming that you had something to trade that they wanted enough). Perhaps to make it more realistic it should take a few months for the effects to come through.
In the case of maps we'd have to be careful not to make it too easy, but in principle it should be possible to trade another commodity (or lots of money) if you want Portugal to show you their trade routes and you don't have any comparable knowledge to offer.
5) Partial sharing of maps
How about exchanging only some of your maps? This would be a bit more likely than giving access to the whole library. If Spain knows 88 new zones/ provinces and you only have 12 to offer, maybe they only show you 12 of theirs (and then only if they feel like it!)
Or perhaps you could ask for something quite specific like directions to India? Or a map of the South Atlantic?
Apologies to those who've heard some of these before but I wanted to make sure they were picked up for EU2.
1) Claiming Provinces
We (and the AI) should be able to claim one or more provinces via diplomatic means, backed by the threat of war, and/or financial inducements.
The effect on reputation or BB rating would depend on whether you had a legitimate claim (eg province was previously taken from you by force) or were just bullying.
2) Provinces in peace negotiations
You should be able to offer/ accept a province in peace negotiations without actually occupying it first. E.g. you have a legitimate claim to Calais, and a casus belli, but tactically you decide to invade Ile de France and force the French to the negotiating table.
They are pleased to restore Calais to England in return for the release of their testicles.
What do the rest of you think?
3) Claiming the throne by ancestry
At present this seems to be just a more severe form of insult. It should be revised. Maybe you should be able to claim the throne - but only of certain countries. If so, there should be a slight possibility that they will accept your claim although some of the other country's provinces might then secede in disgust.
4) Tech knowledge and maps
It should be possible (note - not easy, or cheap, but possible) to trade research or maps, in exchange for something you have that's of value to the other side - military alliance, royal marriage, money, 20 warships, whatever.
In the case of knowledge you could advance one level by learning from a more advanced civilisation (assuming that you had something to trade that they wanted enough). Perhaps to make it more realistic it should take a few months for the effects to come through.
In the case of maps we'd have to be careful not to make it too easy, but in principle it should be possible to trade another commodity (or lots of money) if you want Portugal to show you their trade routes and you don't have any comparable knowledge to offer.
5) Partial sharing of maps
How about exchanging only some of your maps? This would be a bit more likely than giving access to the whole library. If Spain knows 88 new zones/ provinces and you only have 12 to offer, maybe they only show you 12 of theirs (and then only if they feel like it!)
Or perhaps you could ask for something quite specific like directions to India? Or a map of the South Atlantic?
3) Claiming the throne by ancestry
At present this seems to be just a more severe form of insult. It should be revised. Maybe you should be able to claim the throne - but only of certain countries. If so, there should be a slight possibility that they will accept your claim although some of the other country's provinces might then secede in disgust.
Hmm how about only when you had a royal marriage? Can't have an ancestor without a marriage van you?
At present this seems to be just a more severe form of insult. It should be revised. Maybe you should be able to claim the throne - but only of certain countries. If so, there should be a slight possibility that they will accept your claim although some of the other country's provinces might then secede in disgust.
Hmm how about only when you had a royal marriage? Can't have an ancestor without a marriage van you?
This isn't that good of an idea, since people with money will just cause civil wars everywhere. You should only be able to support existing rebels, and even then their chance of success is limited.
Perhaps the predictability of diplomatic responses should depend on the centralisation/decentralisation of the responding power. After all, while the English might know what to expect from Louis XIV, they would have a harder time trying to take the minds of the entire PLC Seym.
Zagloba
Zagloba
no mind-reading please
I don't think the English would have a REALLY accurate knowledge of what Louis XIV was thinking. Or anyone else.
We need some serious Fog of War in the diplomatic field. You wouldn't have more than a vague idea of what your rival powers thought about you or each other. So you shouldn't in EU.
For example: you want to improve relations with Spain in order to maximise the chances of a royal marriage or a military alliance, so you send them a diplomat bearing gifts. As the game stands, you not only know exactly how much they hate you beforehand but you get a precise measurement of how much the gift has helped. This is impossible even amongst close family or friends, never mind between governments. If the alliance was really important to you you'd just have to throw lots of goodies at them and then hope for the best.
I suggest instead that you should get no more than the herald's message ("Sire they are now our closest friends" - or "Sire they threw me out!"). You would then try to read what you can into their messages to you.
Much more realistic and challenging!
I don't think the English would have a REALLY accurate knowledge of what Louis XIV was thinking. Or anyone else.
We need some serious Fog of War in the diplomatic field. You wouldn't have more than a vague idea of what your rival powers thought about you or each other. So you shouldn't in EU.
For example: you want to improve relations with Spain in order to maximise the chances of a royal marriage or a military alliance, so you send them a diplomat bearing gifts. As the game stands, you not only know exactly how much they hate you beforehand but you get a precise measurement of how much the gift has helped. This is impossible even amongst close family or friends, never mind between governments. If the alliance was really important to you you'd just have to throw lots of goodies at them and then hope for the best.
I suggest instead that you should get no more than the herald's message ("Sire they are now our closest friends" - or "Sire they threw me out!"). You would then try to read what you can into their messages to you.
Much more realistic and challenging!
Another good idea would be to do like they did in Zeus, and add a column of the history of the diplomatic actions between two countries, although this would be a little more work if you were going to do a history between all the countries and all the countries...
Unlimited province gain.
I think you should be able to gain more than 3 provincies in end of war.
Hist. Example:
In around 1809, there was a war between Sweden and Russia, in which Russia have gained Savolaks, Finland, Tavastland and Osterbotten. Other example was after War of Independence, when U.S. have gained lands from Missisipi River to Appalache Mountains. And don't forget good old Seven Years War!
I think you should be able to gain more than 3 provincies in end of war.
Hist. Example:
In around 1809, there was a war between Sweden and Russia, in which Russia have gained Savolaks, Finland, Tavastland and Osterbotten. Other example was after War of Independence, when U.S. have gained lands from Missisipi River to Appalache Mountains. And don't forget good old Seven Years War!
Re: more diplomacy ideas
And, you shouldn't gain all of another country's maps just because you won a naval engagement. Instead, you should get a smaller number, based upon how large their fleet was, with a preference given to maps of the region where the naval engagement was faught.
Alexandre
And, you shouldn't gain all of another country's maps just because you won a naval engagement. Instead, you should get a smaller number, based upon how large their fleet was, with a preference given to maps of the region where the naval engagement was faught.
Alexandre
Originally posted by Lethke
3) Claiming the throne by ancestry
At present this seems to be just a more severe form of insult. It should be revised. Maybe you should be able to claim the throne - but only of certain countries. If so, there should be a slight possibility that they will accept your claim although some of the other country's provinces might then secede in disgust.
Hmm how about only when you had a royal marriage? Can't have an ancestor without a marriage van you?
Oh, I don't know about that: I, Alexandros, Eastern Roman Emperor, claim the thrones of England and Egypt by ancestry: after all, my forebearer, St. Constantine the Great ruled the province of Britania (never mind that he abandoned it), and the Arab invaders took Egypt from my forebearer Heraclius. Now, I claim my rights to both of them.
Alexandre
ayo you know what would be off the hook is if you were able to sell provinces for money, like a cheapass province could go for 2000 ducats or some and good provinces with like ivory or somethin could be real expensive. It would be a good way to make money.
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Re: Unlimited province gain.
I disagree. In history most of the time borders changed slowly over time unless a country was completly destroyed. As for the U.S. example, that was a war of independence or in EU terms, he provinces mentioned above where probaly in rebellion when the new nation formed thus becoming part of it. Swedo russian example is probabely corret but I think thats something we will have to live with in order to prevent players from taking all of for example France's provinces but the capital and then annexing them with minimal BB cost.
I disagree. In history most of the time borders changed slowly over time unless a country was completly destroyed. As for the U.S. example, that was a war of independence or in EU terms, he provinces mentioned above where probaly in rebellion when the new nation formed thus becoming part of it. Swedo russian example is probabely corret but I think thats something we will have to live with in order to prevent players from taking all of for example France's provinces but the capital and then annexing them with minimal BB cost.
Colonial provinces are an exception. France ceded a lot of (EU) provinces to England during the peace conference (can't recall the name right now) after the Seven Years War.
sharing research
No-one picked up on my suggestion (above) of sharing / buying technical research as part of a diplomatic exchange.
Maybe that's because it's a weak idea or just that I mixed it in with the map-trading idea. Anyway, I rather like it - it worked well in Civ2. Obviously the downside, as ever, would be the risk of making things too easy but that could be balanced by introducing the "diplomatic fog" we've been discussing.
E.g: you THINK the Portuguese are some way ahead of you in naval technology, and you're desperate to get to level 16 to build a shipyard, so you butter them up with presents then propose to exchange some of your knowledge in another area - but you don't know for certain whether they will agree, or whether they actually know anything at all, or whether they are going to immediately sell the info on to the Russians.
If they do agree, you can advance, up to one level at a time, by adding an unpredictable (or random?) amount of ducats to your current level of research investment in that area.
No-one picked up on my suggestion (above) of sharing / buying technical research as part of a diplomatic exchange.
Maybe that's because it's a weak idea or just that I mixed it in with the map-trading idea. Anyway, I rather like it - it worked well in Civ2. Obviously the downside, as ever, would be the risk of making things too easy but that could be balanced by introducing the "diplomatic fog" we've been discussing.
E.g: you THINK the Portuguese are some way ahead of you in naval technology, and you're desperate to get to level 16 to build a shipyard, so you butter them up with presents then propose to exchange some of your knowledge in another area - but you don't know for certain whether they will agree, or whether they actually know anything at all, or whether they are going to immediately sell the info on to the Russians.
If they do agree, you can advance, up to one level at a time, by adding an unpredictable (or random?) amount of ducats to your current level of research investment in that area.