Diplo-Vassalisation WAD or Ridiculous nerf in 1.13?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Hodge_Hodgson

First Lieutenant
51 Badges
Feb 25, 2014
235
465
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
I'm playing as Castile (Iron-man) I have Aragon under a PU, I've joined in on a gang-bang against France and forced them to release four province Guyenne with a view to vassalise them. My economy much larger, why am I getting such a big negative malus for the economy? Secondly why am I getting a military malus when again I have a much larger army and navy than them? They have 18 tax base, I have just over 100.

2015-08-19_00001.jpg


2015-08-19_00002.jpg


2015-08-19_00003.jpg


2015-08-19_00004.jpg


2015-08-19_00005.jpg
 

Cataphract887

Captain
1 Badges
Jan 4, 2003
354
119
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV
It just doesnt work and isnt intended to, AFAIK. Their development is probably to high having 4 provinces and all. You need a much larger ratio than 100 to 18 to make that penalty shrink
If your allied to aragon there, you could make them take the top 3 province in a war and possibly diplovassalize them then(if you can beat france to it)
 

FieldMedic

Colonel
104 Badges
Nov 10, 2012
1.034
1.775
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Prison Architect
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • 500k Club
Yeah you're going to have a hard time diplo-vassalizing a nation with more then 2 provinces. Especially if they're rich, juicy French territories. There are OPMs in Italy and the HRE you can't diplo-vassalize because their development is too high.
 

AurochsAway

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Jan 15, 2014
4.432
697
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
Economy and military aren't 1:1 comparisons. I don't know the formula for military ratios, but it's usually manipulatable with mercenaries so it probably a small ratio.

Economic power is, I think, 60(your development)/(target's development)^2 - 90, capping at +40.
 

Outrider

General
1 Badges
Sep 8, 2013
2.067
377
  • Europa Universalis IV
Ok so it's WAD, seems like an artificial barrier than a real one but fair enough, thanks for the info.

It's supposed to make diplo-vassal of large, rich targets somewhat difficult, as otherwise it would allow for ridiculously large amounts of AE-free expansion.

If Aurochs' formula is correct, a 50 development country will require you to have a little under 2k development to bring the relative "economic base" modifier to 0.
On the other hand, a 20 development country will only require 267 development.

It's the hardest malus to overcome other than distance and you'll often need to positive military size and diprep bonuses to overcome it on larger targets.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

alpaca

Even-toed ungulate
80 Badges
Mar 13, 2007
1.194
814
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • King Arthur II
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • East India Company Collection
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
Diplo-vassalizing larger countries is seriously hard. With your puny army and income you probably couldn't even diplo-vassalize someone like Dauphine. Try again when you have 80 income and 60 troops or so. Your PU subjects and other vassals don't count, by the way, which is a little annoying. At least you're not Austria, they have a seriously hard time diplo-vassalizing anyone in the latest patches what with their being locked in Duchy mode.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

bbqftw

banana vendor for unhuman entities
2 Badges
Jan 18, 2014
5.394
6.187
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
since main factor against diplovassalization is scaled on (development)^2, it was nerfed by the introduction of development over basetax since the raw development numbers are higher.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

TingJonKi

Captain
53 Badges
Feb 27, 2011
432
157
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
Diplo vassilzation still works fine

I mean as Bohemia you can diplovassalize like 5 countries without expanding

the real nerf is that if you own cores of the nation you can no longer DV, this makes it hard to DV nations with many cores or if you are on a conquering spree and released the nation while sitting on a core yourself
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Cataphract887

Captain
1 Badges
Jan 4, 2003
354
119
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV
It's supposed to make diplo-vassal of large, rich targets somewhat difficult, as otherwise it would allow for ridiculously large amounts of AE-free expansion.

Its just that the annexation option is way to strong as implemented in EU4. There should be a way for vassals to slowly hang around alot longer or even peaceably drift apart again at some point. Right now its purely a one way street to annexation, a tool for imperial land management.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
41 Badges
Nov 15, 2007
12.513
137.626
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
since main factor against diplovassalization is scaled on (development)^2, it was nerfed by the introduction of development over basetax since the raw development numbers are higher.

The formula was tweaked.
 
  • 4
Reactions:

beckermt

Field Marshal
56 Badges
Mar 28, 2012
2.555
1.382
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
I was hoping wiz would tell us what the new formula is....the wiki says:

60*(base tax+production)/(target's base tax+target's production)^2 - 90

Any chance you can confirm or correct?

I would strongly doubt that the formula doesn't take into account all 3 types of development.

As for the OP's question: Both the relationships (miltary and economic) are, as others pointed out, not linear. In the old model, which is probably a pretty decent comparison, an 18 BT nation would give -30 penalty to a nation with 324 BT. So... Then again, 18 BT is pretty hefty. (or two italian provinces)

The military is similar. Your 15 guys compared to their 6 isn't massively different.
 

Golladan

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Dec 25, 2013
4.938
3.132
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
I was hoping wiz would tell us what the new formula is....the wiki says:

60*(base tax+production)/(target's base tax+target's production)^2 - 90

Any chance you can confirm or correct?
Granada has 10 base tax, 10 base production, and 7 base manpower. 27 development.
Navarra has 3 base tax, 2 base production, and 2 base manpower. 7 development.

Granadan economic base compared to Navarran: -29.

I think that should answer your question.
 

SignedName

Field Marshal
48 Badges
May 29, 2013
2.636
3.057
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
Maybe diplo vassalization should take into account government rank? So duchies can vassalize up to x amount of development, kingdoms can vassalize y, etc. The hard limit of 100 development seems a bit harsh, especially in late game.
 

alpaca

Even-toed ungulate
80 Badges
Mar 13, 2007
1.194
814
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • King Arthur II
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • East India Company Collection
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
Maybe diplo vassalization should take into account government rank? So duchies can vassalize up to x amount of development, kingdoms can vassalize y, etc.
It already sort of does. There is a pretty hefty modifier when your target has an equal or higher government rank. I don't think it should matter as far as the economic and military modifiers are concerned.
 

PeterCorless

General
83 Badges
May 4, 2006
1.979
1.286
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
The fact that smaller nations tend to get more troops now (7-8 regiments for even an OPM vs. 3-5 under the old system) also contributes to the difficulty to vassalize nations.

The size of Castile's army in the above screenshots shows Castille is woefully under his army total: 15.7 of 32. The Navy might also have similar issues.

The strength of your military even depends on whether you are funding forts or your military. You get a bit of a boost by turning maintenance on all of them to the max. Lowering it for peaceful savings will result in a lower army / navy strength score.

I faced a similar vassalization challenge with my Byzantine run and the 4-province Wallachians (surprisingly, they actually took a province from Otto). I had to keep incrementally increasing my army and navy, bit by bit, over a few decades, plus also get a province adjacent to him before he'd vassalize.

The clincher to do it was wait until after a war where Wallachia was badly beaten. They lost all their troops and surrendered in a war with Muskovy. As soon as the war was over — the day after — I was ready with the "Vassalize" button before they could build back their first regiment. Yay! "Get in my belly!" as Shen would say.