Dimensional Submarines aka Science&Secrecy

[PirateJack]

All of that but effective, because from the sound of it ships almost always get detected near other ships and planets, making them obsolete in general. Sensor idea is neat, but the problem is that sensors and stealth devices have a fixed final level of power. Add repetitive tech, maybe?

Remember that you only get one sensor but can have multiple AUX slots. Also, I'd aim to balance it so that equivalent level modules err in favour of cloaking, rather than sensors. Thinking on that more, actually, I'd go with fleet based sensors trump equivalent level cloaking, which trumps planet-based sensors. So level 1 in cloaking/sensors would be able to remain cloaked as long as the enemy fleet doesn't get too close. Park your spy ship somewhere the enemy fleet isn't going to go near and you'd have a perfect spy, right up until they upgrade their planet-based sensors and spot you. It'd actually be a way to buff warp FTL as they can come from pretty much any direction, while wormhole and hyperlanes can be predicted.

Repeatable techs sound good to me, too. I'd possibly consider adding a new ship segment that would give an additional AUX slot, at the cost of smaller/fewer weapons slots.

 

[Sibericus]

All of that but effective, because from the sound of it ships almost always get detected near other ships and planets, making them obsolete in general. Sensor idea is neat, but the problem is that sensors and stealth devices have a fixed final level of power. Add repetitive tech, maybe?

See my suggestion above. Basic idea is that all stealth continues to work with all sensor types, just at different effective ranges. If someone wanted to sneak their low tier stealth ships past higher tier sensors, they would need to skirt around at a further range to avoid detection. This prevents purely unbalanced gameplay where one member is impossible to hide or detect. With a second partial detection range, it also allows a means of knowing that there is an intruder present, without completely exposing the stealthed party.

 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Pointless. there's no supply ships, the traditional target of submarines. If they are better at fleet battles, people will use all submarines; if not, they won't use them at all. Using them to blow up mining stations is a lot of annoying micro for both attacker and defender, and generally won't make any meaningful difference in the course of a given war. (You reduced their mineral income at the cost of large outlays which weaken your main fleet.)

e: Spy-sensor ships will never fly, regardless of their mechanics; they would occupy the same mechanical space as the sensor array megaproject.

addendum: The definitive 'ww2 submarines in space' book is of course 'A Passage at Arms' by Glen Cook.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006NZAWYK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

 

[Primarch Victus]

You know what this is a picture of?

400 Romulan Warbirds cloaked within shooting distance of Earth.

Ouuuuch! dam Romulans!

 

[Riftwalker]

i have to agree, I don't particularly believe they would be useful in the current mechanical design. The range effectiveness to me would require too much micro, for instance. In combat how does the stealth work? an unusually high evasion? if so, not much has changed but the addition of another type of defense that stacks with engines.

The idea is novel, but just can't work until they expand the grand strategy side of the game to be more than doom stack fighting.

 

[Primarch Victus]

Pointless. there's no supply ships, the traditional target of submarines. If they are better at fleet battles, people will use all submarines; if not, they won't use them at all. Using them to blow up mining stations is a lot of annoying micro for both attacker and defender, and generally won't make any meaningful difference in the course of a given war. (You reduced their mineral income at the cost of large outlays which weaken your main fleet.)

e: Spy-sensor ships will never fly, regardless of their mechanics; they would occupy the same mechanical space as the sensor array megaproject.

addendum: The definitive 'ww2 submarines in space' book is of course 'A Passage at Arms' by Glen Cook.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006NZAWYK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

My friend, believe me when I say to you that there is nothing worse to the governor of a planet than having a alien army disembarking in his/her front door from one of those cloaked troop transporters.

 

[TwiceAHuman]

Pointless. there's no supply ships, the traditional target of submarines. If they are better at fleet battles, people will use all submarines; if not, they won't use them at all. Using them to blow up mining stations is a lot of annoying micro for both attacker and defender, and generally won't make any meaningful difference in the course of a given war. (You reduced their mineral income at the cost of large outlays which weaken your main fleet.)

e: Spy-sensor ships will never fly, regardless of their mechanics; they would occupy the same mechanical space as the sensor array megaproject.

addendum: The definitive 'ww2 submarines in space' book is of course 'A Passage at Arms' by Glen Cook.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006NZAWYK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

There are spaceports, individual ships moving to join the fleet, transport ships and science ships.

 

[Primarch Victus]

And let's not forget of the famous equation: espionage = propaganda+sabotage+assassination. This is the classic formula to those who wants to (CENSORED) a empire without risking a entire fleet that could be better used elsewhere.

 

[bronze Void poison]

And let's not forget of the famous equation: espionage = propaganda+sabotage+assassination. This is the classic formula to who wants to (CENSORED) a empire without risking a entire fleet that could be better used elsewhere.

this this is what we need.

 

[terrycloth]

If you want to keep it simple (and not rely on the idea of 'teching up sensors' which in practice is very very random) have them be invisible in any system without any sensors, and in systems that do have sensors, have them make a ping but not be identified or targettable. Then either (a) give them no weapons, or (b) just make sure they have to decloak to fire, and can't recloak in combat.

Cloaked science ships would be the most useful hull, since they could scan debris and survey in enemy systems. Then you could add additional espionage-style missions that science ships could perform, that wouldn't *require* cloaking but would only work against your actual enemies if cloaked. Propaganda (changing ethics), Sabotage (ruining buildings), Assassination (killing leaders). Maybe steal tech by scanning warships. Although that last one would let allies share and might be too powerful.

 

[Primarch Victus]

In Haegemonia: Legions of Iron you have a "space radar" envolving the planets you colonize -- without this radar, enemy ships are literally invisible when attacking your world(s). And we have a special type of ship -- the spy ship -- that you can improve through researching the right tech(s). Why we cannot have a spy ship in Stellaris derived from the science ship model? it could work similarly to a science ship, but instead of being a design dedicated to science and exploration, it would be a design dedicated to classic espionage missions like sabotage, war propaganda, technology theft and assassination.