Dimensional Submarines aka Science&Secrecy

[TwiceAHuman]

No, it's not a former space marine who now works as a scuba diver. It's rather a strange (and potentially horrible) idea. So, in the game lore there already exist some cloaking technologies relying on subspace usage. So why not push that a bit futher? What if we had a brand new ship class that could 'dive' into a lower dimension of space, thus becoming invisible and untouchable for 'normal' ships? In other words, a dimensional submarine of sorts. Of course it should be quite fragile both for balance and because it's a very delicate mechanism, not just a usual chunk of metal with some firework rockets on its back. Theoretically, these ships shouldn't be visible to other parties via normal means and shouldn't be able to attack when submerged (also should be able to cloak during the battle). They also may be able to sneak into closed territories, although if they are detected, they get kicked out just like any other ships + significant relationship malus. So, what do you think about this concept? Do you think there should be more limitations/mechanics? Can this concept be viable at all?

Edit: So, to my mind this shouldn't be auxiliary module, because yay submerged Titans. It should instead be a 2-sectioned cruiser-size vessel with ratively small health. They have a strong focus on torpedoes/hangars and as stated above, they need to 'surface' to attack. When surfaced, they can receive damage as well, so you can't expect them to just pop up and win the day. Still, after releasing a salvo they probably should dive again after some time window, so they don't constantly recieve damage. While torpedo bearers would regularly dive and surface, hangar ones would surface only once to release the bombers and then once more to take them back. While the precise nature of unveiling said ships (as well as other weapon combos) are still under debate, I think they should be counted by some kind of weapons aka "subspace bombs" that has meager damage, but 200% bonus against submerged ships as well as ability to attack them while they are submerged, of course. What are your thoughts?

 

[Pern]

There are some scfi books where ships travel in various dimensions, howerer they can fire missiles to other dimensions perhaps that can add a new level to missiles?

 

[extrapancake]

Absolutely, not enough espionage going on. Would also add that you should have a higher tech level in stealth than your target has in sensors, as well as maybe making banning its use a wargoal.

 

[faljen_isus]

i would love more tech ban wargoals

 

[Riftwalker]

Absolutely, not enough espionage going on. Would also add that you should have a higher tech level in stealth than your target has in sensors, as well as maybe making banning its use a wargoal.

I think you;d need higher sensors to pick them up so equal level empires can still use these techs, you simply have to outpace them to defeat the cloaking.

also wouldn't they be called SubSpaceShips?

 

[Sibericus]

There could be different levels of stealth for each level of sensor. Chameleon circuits would trick the base radio sensors, but gravitic and higher would pick them out easily. Subspace masking would fool gravitic sensors, but subspace sensors would catch that. Temporal phasing would bypass subspace sensors, but tachyon sensors would still see them.

Maybe the stealth/sensors could be strength based, with stronger sensors detecting weaker cloaking from further away. For example, Subspace masking would be mostly invisible to radio sensors, but it would still be revealed if the ship got within a certain range, while with tachyon sensors, the subspace masking could still be invisible as long as it stays outside of a much larger range. There could even be a secondary range where the sensors detect that something is present and can give a rough location but can't properly identify it. There could even be an indicator range.

This could be really fun if it was paired with a new spaceborne alien. Imagine researching higher levels of sensors and finding a bunch of space chameleons or higher dimensional squid that have been sitting in your systems the entire time. Imagine if some of them turn hostile when they are discovered.

There could even be a new ruin or leviathan that gives a higher level of stealth/sensors when properly defeated/researched.

 

[Primarch Victus]

Absolutely, not enough espionage going on. Would also add that you should have a higher tech level in stealth than your target has in sensors, as well as maybe making banning its use a wargoal.

I agree. Stellaris needs more spies and espionage -- imagine all that juicy info and imperial gossip!

 

[Primarch Victus]

Would it be better if this was an auxillary module for existing ships, or if there was its own.

I suggest more kinds of stealth for each level of sensor. Chameleon circuits would trick the base radio sensors, but gravitic and higher would pick them out easily. Subspace masking would fool gravitic sensors, but subspace sensors would catch that. Temporal phasing would bypass subspace sensors, but tachyon sensors would still see them.

Should there be a next level of stealth after that though? Or maybe the stealth/sensors could also be strength based, with stronger sensors detecting weaker cloaking from further away. For example, Subspace masking would be mostly invisible to radio sensors, but it would still be revealed if the ship got within a certain range, while with tachyon sensors, the subspace masking could still be invisible outside of a much larger range. There could even be a secondary range where the sensors detect that something is present and can give a rough location but can't properly identify it. It could even give the player an indicator range.

This could be really fun if it was paired with a new spaceborne alien. Imagine researching higher levels of sensors and finding a bunch of space chameleons or higher dimensional squid that have been sitting in your systems the entire time. Imagine if some of them turn hostile when they are discovered.

There could even be a new ruin or leviathan that gives a higher level of stealth/sensors when properly defeated

It would be cool if we have a new species highly specialized in espionage and stealth -- imagine the possibilities!

 

[TwiceAHuman]

I agree. Stellaris needs more spies and espionage -- imagine all that juicy info and imperial gossip!

"Commonwealth of Man's nuclear subspacemarine detected near the coasts of Mext-Puct Federation!"

 

[Primarch Victus]

Hehehehehehe!

 

[bronze Void poison]

any espionage is nice

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

I'm on board with cloaks. Is there a map type that shows sensor strength? I'm on board with one of those as well.

 

[Olliganak]

Maliciously tampering with the laws of time and space to perform espionage?

I love it!

 

[Daimonin]

You can't just shove "space" into a word to make it be about space... especially since "marine" already specifies the ocean/sea/aquatic. If you want to use the submarine name similarity, then you replace the "marine" with "space" and you get "subspace". But that doesn't sound right, especially since it's already the name of the medium of sorts. So lets just call it a "Subspace-ship" or somesuch.

 

[Secret Master]

You know what this is a picture of?

400 Romulan Warbirds cloaked within shooting distance of Earth.

 

[Drowe]

Cloaked ships are a staple of science fiction, but can be hard to balance. I would love to see the ability to cloak ships, but it should be limited. How exactly it is limited is up for debate, it could be that the number of ships in a fleet exponentially increase the chance of detection, or that the necessary module is extremely power hungry, which weakens the ships in any straight fight. Or think of some other way to balance it.

 

[TwiceAHuman]

You can't just shove "space" into a word to make it be about space... especially since "marine" already specifies the ocean/sea/aquatic. If you want to use the submarine name similarity, then you replace the "marine" with "space" and you get "subspace". But that doesn't sound right, especially since it's already the name of the medium of sorts. So lets just call it a "Subspace-ship" or somesuch.

Well, ultramarines don't have much in common with sea, either. Also there are many links between spaceships and traditional navy in sci-fi for some reason. To me, they are closer to planes.

 

[tsk92]

"Space Battleship Yamato" submarines for the win""

 

[PirateJack]

If I were to do this, I'd have it as an AUX module that gives a static value of Cloaking. Sensors would have to beat that value to detect the cloaked ship. Multiple modules stack their Cloaking values.

Planet based sensors would give X value over the standard sensor range, but would not be as powerful as ship based sensors. You could also have a unique planet-based building that increases sensor strength. Ship-based sensors would have a much shorter range, so you could skirt around them if need be.

However, larger ship sizes would have an innate malus to Cloaking, so you'd need multiple modules to cloak a battleship to the same level as a single module on a corvette.

Simple, effective and intuitive.

 

[TwiceAHuman]

If I were to do this, I'd have it as an AUX module that gives a static value of Cloaking. Sensors would have to beat that value to detect the cloaked ship. Multiple modules stack their Cloaking values.

Planet based sensors would give X value over the standard sensor range, but would not be as powerful as ship based sensors. You could also have a unique planet-based building that increases sensor strength. Ship-based sensors would have a much shorter range, so you could skirt around them if need be.

However, larger ship sizes would have an innate malus to Cloaking, so you'd need multiple modules to cloak a battleship to the same level as a single module on a corvette.

Simple, effective and intuitive.

All of that but effective, because from the sound of it ships almost always get detected near other ships and planets, making them obsolete in general. Sensor idea is neat, but the problem is that sensors and stealth devices have a fixed final level of power. Add repetitive tech, maybe?