"Differing war philosophy" - Impossible to get alliance.

[Lerox]

I tried some experimenting. Found 3 different empires, all with 'differing war philosophy' I had orbital bombardment on Limited, changed it to 'light' sped up time a few months and no changes to any of the 3. So i reloaded my save game, changed bombardment to full and sped up time again. Once again no changes to any of them. I reloaded a few times and tried the same thing with war economy, and again no changes. I even tried first contact protocol an native interference, and at no point did any of the three empires ever change from -20 for different war philosophy. Either this is bugged, or someone needs to explain what it actually is

 

[knuckey]

After being baffled by this I have found it is to do with this line in defines.lua:

ALLIANCE_CONQUEROR_DIFFERENCE = -20, -- penalty if one side is expansionistic and the other isn't

Quite how the AI decides the player is expansionist is not clear, but setting this to zero can work as a temp fix.

 

[JaguarXJ6]

After being baffled by this I have found it is to do with this line in defines.lua:

ALLIANCE_CONQUEROR_DIFFERENCE = -20, -- penalty if one side is expansionistic and the other isn't

Quite how the AI decides the player is expansionist is not clear, but setting this to zero can work as a temp fix.

Thanks for finding that.

The AI empires were larger than me by at least 5 planets and 30 pops, rated Superior in fleet and tech, they are Pacifists, but I have the unshakable expansionist penalty?

BS flags are out and the breeze is strong with the smell of bullshit.

 

[macd21]

Thanks for finding that.

The AI empires were larger than me by at least 5 planets and 30 pops, rated Superior in fleet and tech, they are Pacifists, but I have the unshakable expansionist penalty?

BS flags are out and the breeze is strong with the smell of bullshit.

Were you pacifist? If not, then the penalty makes sense.

 

[jaredstanko]

just remove the modifier all together, nations with differing ethics dont get along as it is, dont make nations that could have the exact same ethics get a malus over some esoteric policy that in most relevant cases is already covered by differing ethics anyways

 

[EvilTom]

Damn... Ive got a playthrough where all my immediate neighbours are all neutrals and won't agree to anything. It's getting dull. I was playing as a benevolent democracy type people but I'm feeling the need for a war coming up.

 

[Destiny's Player]

After being baffled by this I have found it is to do with this line in defines.lua:

ALLIANCE_CONQUEROR_DIFFERENCE = -20, -- penalty if one side is expansionistic and the other isn't

Quite how the AI decides the player is expansionist is not clear, but setting this to zero can work as a temp fix.

Now there's only one thing left: to put that darn thing into a mod. Because I can't figure out how to do it. Anybody else?

 

[Destiny's Player]

Actually, screw that, I put it into a mod myself. Here's the link.

 

[Bediende]

It would be nice to hear from the Paradox team about this. If it is a bug, an intentional modifier used in the correct way and how we can predict it (as of right now, it appears to be every AI empire, every time). Any news, guys?

 

[BjornB]

It would be nice to hear from the Paradox team about this. If it is a bug, an intentional modifier used in the correct way and how we can predict it (as of right now, it appears to be every AI empire, every time). Any news, guys?

You can click "show only dev responses" in the top right corner of your screen.

 

[Bediende]

I did a little digging on the wiki and it appears that the authoritative ruling is that the differing war philosophy is supposed to refer to militant/pacifist empire relations, which makes sense. That eliminated orbital bombardment, purge, etc:

http://www.stellariswiki.com/Ethos#Militarist_-_Pacifist

However, if non militant/pacifist empires are experiencing this modifier then it is a bug, which is what I think all of us are experiencing.

 

[The Fire Priest]

Whatever the mechanic is it could do with an explaination or tooltip. Sounds like it makes sense from the above suposition and experimentation but it would be good to know for sure. This metric got in the way of me forming a federation in my first run through!

 

[I Can Into Relevance?]

I had a similar modifier appear with an empire and it seemed to increase every time I declared war so it could be based on how often you call wars or how many wars you have been in. Did you conquer any primitives or get in any wars?

 

[The Fire Priest]

I had a similar modifier appear with an empire and it seemed to increase every time I declared war so it could be based on how often you call wars or how many wars you have been in. Did you conquer any primitives or get in any wars?

Not at the stage when it was first apparant. I was militaristic but hadn't been in any wars at all by the time I was looking to bring in a 4th ally. The modifier was there from first contact and wouldn't budge, even with policy changes and an embassy.

 

[Balkri]

I'm in my 3° game now. And after, many hours of observation i have noted that i get the "different war philosophy" with every empire that have a Fanatic Etho, different than the one i have.

Why do i say this?. Well i noticed that i got the "debuff" with a fanatic collectivist neighbour, while i was fanatic materialist (not necessarily oposite). But with other neighbour that have just 3 normal ethos, i don't get that -20 modifier.

Aparently currently the different war philosophy is in the game to make more dificult the alliance of different Fanatic Ethos.

Anyway, i will keep observing, and will try to get some screenshots

 

[jazzglands]

Also, a difference in power should factor in. If a superior (threat generating big, scary and sophisticated) empire approaches you wanting to be friends and ally, your relative power should factor in making you more likely to accept. The modifier for this seems to already exist as Threat but it's only a negative modifier not a positive one.

They'd probably prefer to ally with their trustworthy neighbors against the big, scary menace that's coming to conquer all of them

 

[jazzglands]

Except that Orbital Bombardment isn't a simple on/off thing. There are three options to choose from - Light (lighter weapons, strictly military targets only), Limited (heavier weapons, slightly eased targeting restrictions), Full (one step short of Base Delta Zero/Exterminatus in that the planet isn't rendered incapable of sustaining life in the future).

I'll try to put it into modern terms:

"Light" is like using attack craft to hit only military targets that are well away from cities. "Limited" means that you start using strategic bombers as well and allow for targets closer to cities to be hit. "Full" is the carpet bombing you mentioned.

That sounds like a big difference to me

 

[therafkid]

So if you really want to fix this, it is possible to tinker with the file to eliminate this. Whilst i didnt find the war policy specific modifier, i did fins the base -50. If you change this to -30 instead, that will counter the war policy. Again only use the fix if you want to, if you dont agree with fiddling with the files then dont The location is:
C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Stellaris\common\diplomatic_actions

Or just open local files through steam and navigate that way

Hope this helps

 

[facmanpob]

I'm in my 3° game now. And after, many hours of observation i have noted that i get the "different war philosophy" with every empire that have a Fanatic Etho, different than the one i have.

Why do i say this?. Well i noticed that i got the "debuff" with a fanatic collectivist neighbour, while i was fanatic materialist (not necessarily oposite). But with other neighbour that have just 3 normal ethos, i don't get that -20 modifier.

Just looking at my current save, and I am getting the -20 differing war philosophy modifier with another race sharing the same Fanatic ethos (Fanatic Materialism) as my race. I am not getting the modifier with empires that are just Materialist.

 

[FrighNaar]

In my current game I'm having this modifier with literally every race I've encoutered so far (about 14without primitives and fallen empires). And it is completely independent of the orbital bombardment/ war economy setting. I've tried every single combination and waited for at least one year before reloading and trying a different setting.
It also seems to be independent of the ethos. I even found a species with the same combination I have (individualist, fanatic materialist). I'll have to abort this game because I neither can trade nor enter one of the aliances or federations and by now I'm the only empire that isn't in one of the big power blocks.