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Zagys

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Hi, I have been following this forum for a while now, but lately it seems that all of the action is happening in the beta forums, and not much is being posted here anymore. This seems like a very interesting game, having a greater level of depth and strategy than any other 'strategy' games out there. I would like to know more about the countries that are playable in the grand campaign. Obviously, at the beginning of the game in 1492, they are not all equal to each other in terms of economic, political, and military strength. Which ones are the strongest and the weakest, and in what ways? Is it possible for the weakest power in 1492 to become the strongest in 1792, if so, how? I am sick of playing games where the country that becomes the strongest remains the strongest and can only get stronger. Also, does anyone know the populations of the great powers in 1492? I heard that France had the most people, is that true? Forgive me if these sound like stupid questions, but I have never played the board game, and I didn't learn much from reading the forum so far. I would be extremely grateful to anyone who could answer these questions to my satisfaction, thanks. :)

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Michael Arnason
 

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Hi, I have been following this forum for a while now, but lately it seems that all of the action is happening in the beta forums,
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Most of the folks here went over to beta testing, that's why :).

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Which ones are the strongest and the weakest, and in what ways? Is it possible for the weakest power in 1492 to become the strongest in 1792, if so, how?
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France is among the strongest nations in this game. Spain is also a very powerful nation here. Portugal is one of the weakest nations and also the toughest so far. It is however possible to turn the tide with any nation given the right circumstances.
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I heard that France had the most people, is that true?
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Yes that's true. Russia and Poland has a fairly big reserve as well.

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Forgive me if these sound like stupid questions, but I have never played the board game, and I didn't learn much from reading the forum so far.
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No questions are stupid but did you check the older posts as well? There was lot's of talk a month ago before all went to beta testing.

Hope this helps
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I'm sure ppl will post now and then here :)


I certainly do with my AAR's and answer any questions I see posted to this general forum :)

As do you Marcus :)

We're a dying breed..

Sapura
 

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I think one of the interesting things of the game is that you have to produce a strategy over time. And sometimes its possible to change it.

Countries like France/England/Spain/Portugal and The Netherlands have a great incentative to go for a 'Colonialist-Strategy', with sparsly waging wars and heavily investing in discouvery and colonialization. Other countries like Russia/Poland/Sweden and Turkey are more likely to be able to do colonization rather late into the Game, when most good land is already taken. These countries instead often have to compensate by aquiring territory in other ways (read:war). There is always a 'identification'-problem in your strategy. Am I primarily a Continental Power or is my real interests overseas ? Very fun :)

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'These countries instead often have to compensate by aquiring territory in other ways (read:war). There is always a 'identification'-problem in your strategy. Am I primarily a Continental Power or is my real interests overseas ? '

Hmm, thats one way of aquiring VP I guess. But another way is by strengthening your power internally. Increasing fortress strength, becoming stronger economically, you earn brownie points that way aswell. It really depends on the course of the game and which country you play as + the alliances you are able to forge ..


Sapura - The Greven-licious.
 

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Originally posted by Sapura on 03-03-2000 11:00 AM
'These countries instead often have to compensate by aquiring territory in other ways (read:war). There is always a 'identification'-problem in your strategy. Am I primarily a Continental Power or is my real interests overseas ? '

Hmm, thats one way of aquiring VP I guess. But another way is by strengthening your power internally. Increasing fortress strength, becoming stronger economically, you earn brownie points that way aswell.

It really depends on the course of the game and which country you play as + the alliances you are able to forge ..

Yes, that is... your Strategy !!! ;)


/Greven

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Greven,

You may have a strategy you'd like to follow, but it won't always necessarily work out the way you want to because of circumstances beyond your control :)

Sap
 

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Re: Zagys' posting.

France was potentially a world conqueror historically. E.g. In the early and mid-18th century it had the military resources to conquer Western Europe, and came very close.
(Napoleon did it later which confirms the feasibility.)

But the course of history has been determined by 1-off low-level events, not numerical strength. History has been shaped more by low-level incidents than by high-level policy.

Take America, (1) the British lost Bunker Hill through stupidity. (2) Quebec was stuffed anyway, but it fell to luckier but numerically inferior forces. (3) Washington survived because he had Ft Ti's cannons - the British fort was lost to the Americans because the sentry on the gate panicked and let the American's into the fort.(4) West Point would have been captured by the British had not a secret message been accidentally found. etc. etc.

EU can't recreate random events.
So beware of the French.

[This message has been edited by maurice (edited 04-03-2000).]
 

Zagys

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Hi, thanks for the information guys, but there are still some things I want to know. :D

I understand that the Ottoman Empire was one of the strongest empires in the world in 1492, but by 1792 it was 'the sick man of Europe'. ;) It was weakened by internal problems more so than it's military defeats, but how is this modeled in the game? Are there some special events or rules that reflect the rapidly increasing inefficiency of the Turkish government and economy?

Also, Russia appears to start the grand campaign relatively weak. Does it have any special bonuses that give it a fighting chance against the stronger powers?

If the answers to these questions should be obvious then I'm sorry, but I am having difficulty understanding how this game can be balanced in the grand campaign if the playable countries have such wildly differing starting strengths. I understand and appreciate the realism of this, but am wondering why anyone would choose to play Portugal instead of Spain, or Russia instead of Turkey. :)

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'understand that the Ottoman Empire was one of the strongest empires in the world in 1492, but by 1792 it was 'the sick man of Europe'. It was weakened by internal problems more so than it's military defeats, but how is this modeled in the game? Are there some special events or rules that reflect the rapidly increasing inefficiency of the Turkish government and economy?'

Count Poland-Lithuanian Commonwealth in that 'sick man' category by 1792.
I know that Turkey can stay ontop of the game, if it A) does exceedingly well in the first century or so, captures alot of land, manages to build up its defences. Later on the only way to increase the strength/land tech of the Turkish army is to drastically change the governmental and religious aspects of the country..

Also, Russia appears to start the grand campaign relatively weak. Does it have any special bonuses that give it a fighting chance against the stronger powers?

Aye, Russia and Portugal are the weakest to begin with. I don't know what bonuses it has, exactly .. it is large, which means the scope for strong expansion / large armies is possible IF it expands economically. I know for one that from Peter the Greats' reign there are several strong bonuses..

It's hard being Russia in the beginning, surrounded by strong enemies, Poland, Sweden-Denmark, etc.. :)
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Originally posted by Sapura on 03-04-2000 05:24 AM
Greven,

You may have a strategy you'd like to follow, but it won't always necessarily work out the way you want to because of circumstances beyond your control :)

Sap

Yes, of course, Sap ! I wasn't too clear in my first letter. What I really meant was that you (well, actually I) start out by formulating a strategy based on those factors you named (geographical position, relative wealth, enemies, possible alliances, etc) then... very quickly in fact... my strategy has to change as my surround changes... :)

But, often you have some , personlly chosen guidelines from which you just don't want to depart to much, say internal improvement or military might or carving out an overseas empire. But, it could be a chimera... :)

/Greven
 

Zagys

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Is it at all possible for any one country to control all of Europe, or maybe even the world? ;) I know this never happened historically, but wasn't achieving a united Europe at least theoretically possible? :)

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Zagys
'I understand that the Ottoman Empire was one of the strongest empires in the world in 1492, but by 1792 it was 'the sick man of Europe'.'

In 1492, the Ottomans were a rising star having conquered large parts of the Byszantine empire already but not yet the strongest in the world. They had not even taken their future capital, Constantinopel (or Byzantium at the time).
And in 1792 it was declining but it wasn't not entirely the 'sick man of Europe' too, 50 years later it was.

Sapura, a question: I hate it how in other empire games, such as civ2 or imperialism, the number of competitors decreases towards the end of the game (because unlike in real life now new empires are born through seccesion etc while the original empires swallow eachother) does this occur in EU as well ?
 

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New nations do appear in EU. Mainly through revolts. It's possible for conquered countries to reappear as well. I had Georgia get rid of their Persian aggressors for instance. Ireland, perhaps most important Holland can also appear. So the short answer is yes :).

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Zaib,

Marcus is right, EU is quite an entirely different and more complex game than CIV2, IMp2, etc. It is extremely difficult to capture large areas in the game, especially when fighting a strong opponent like France for example, unless you spend massive amounts on your army.


Sapura
 

Zagys

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Well Zaib, I agree that in 1492 the Turks were not yet at the height of their power, but they did have Constantinople which they captured in 1453 I believe. :)

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Marcus, Sapura, I'm very excited to hear that ! :)
Another question, in those other empire games you often occurs that one empire becomes stronger then others and that that strenght makes it possible for it to become even more dominant (a vicious circle) or vice versa. I assume (or hope) that does not occur in EU as well, if not what features in the game prevent that ? (other then seccesions)

Zagys, oops I mistaked myself, I tought Byzantium fell in 1493 and because of that I assumed that the Ottomans were far from their heights. (sort of the time they have the Balkans and N.Africa attached to their empire)


[This message has been edited by Zaib (edited 07-03-2000).]
 

Zagys

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It seems like all of the information I have heard about this game, and all of the screenshots I have seen, are focused on Europe. How are non European powers (Aztecs, Chinese, etc.) portrayed in the game? Do they attack and expand and otherwise try to improve their position, or do they just sit there doing nothing and wait to be conquered or economically exploited like in the game Imperialism?

Also, is historical population depicted in the game, meaning that a country like China, though at a technological disadvantage, will have massive numerical superiority over any European invaders?

I would really appreciate a detailed reply, thanks. :)

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Michael Arnason