Diesel warship representation

[Denkt]

Although steam turbines was used in nearly all warships during ww2, Germany did build a class of diesel engine warships (Deutschland class).
They also planned to build many other classes of diesel engine ships (Plan Z) including 6 H class diesel engine BB.

The main advantage of diesel engine would be range at cruise speed which was much better then for steam ships.
Disadvantages seams to be that diesel engine could be unreliable and they did give less power for the same weight, they also need more specific fuel I think.

I think diesel engine ship should be represented somehow because of their great range they could be excellent raiders, very hard to pursue with steam ships.

With the tech team system, give countries a naval tech team (could be MAN for Germany) that greatly increase range of the ships they research but increase the cost and maybe reduce their speed a little.

 

[3ishop]

Might not be a direct tech but possible range/engine modification could be used to cover it.

 

[Ruthlesssamuria]

Sigh they still do not want to represent the Pocket Battleships the Germans built like the Deutschland! it would not take much to add them to the game They were in the earlier versions of HOI I think in 1 and 2 versions.

 

[Centurion1973]

IMO, variant system could easily include such option.

 

[Secret Master]

Sigh they still do not want to represent the Pocket Battleships the Germans built like the Deutschland! it would not take much to add them to the game They were in the earlier versions of HOI I think in 1 and 2 versions.

How do you know this? I don't recall seeing anything finalized on tech trees for the navy. The naval DD seemed to indicate speed was important. Perhaps even without a specific model for it, the variant system will give you the pocket battleships.

But I don't think we know enough yet.

 

[Dark Jakkaru]

"Pocket Battleships" isn't really a separate or distinct ship enough to warrant a new tech branch on the Naval Tree. In all intents and purposes, they were part of the Heavy Cruiser family.

 

[podcat]

"Pocket Battleships" isn't really a separate or distinct ship enough to warrant a new tech branch on the Naval Tree. In all intents and purposes, they were part of the Heavy Cruiser family.

And were classified as such by the germans. Afaik the only ones who called them pocket battleships were the brittish - likely so they could feel better about how much trouble a few ships managed to cause the royal navy

Specialization stuff like that is handled by the variant system

 

[Wyrm]

And were classified as such by the germans. Afaik the only ones who called them pocket battleships were the brittish - likely so they could feel better about how much trouble a few ships managed to cause the royal navy

Specialization stuff like that is handled by the variant system

Actually, prior to reclassification in early 1940 the Germans classified them as "Panzerschiffe". But yes, they were heavy cruisers although aspiring to be battle cruisers. I have high hopes that the variant system will make these ships come true, however, whatever designation they get.

 

[Darkath]

And were classified as such by the germans. Afaik the only ones who called them pocket battleships were the brittish - likely so they could feel better about how much trouble a few ships managed to cause the royal navy

Specialization stuff like that is handled by the variant system

May be diesel propulsion/engines can be a special project or something that we can have somewhere in the tech tree ?

 

[Chromos]

Although steam turbines was used in nearly all warships during ww2, Germany did build a class of diesel engine warships (Deutschland class).
They also planned to build many other classes of diesel engine ships (Plan Z) including 6 H class diesel engine BB.

The main advantage of diesel engine would be range at cruise speed which was much better then for steam ships.
Disadvantages seams to be that diesel engine could be unreliable and they did give less power for the same weight, they also need more specific fuel I think.

I think diesel engine ship should be represented somehow because of their great range they could be excellent raiders, very hard to pursue with steam ships.

With the tech team system, give countries a naval tech team (could be MAN for Germany) that greatly increase range of the ships they research but increase the cost and maybe reduce their speed a little.

Diesel engines of that size were not common. Germany was ahead of its time in this field.
A Diesel engine gave this advantage:
-Bigger range (more fuel need seem not reasonable, as turbines would have more range otherwise..)
-less weight/space -> more weight/space for armour/ammo or slim shipdesign(leads to more speed..)
-less maintenance -> so reliability should raise instead(Compare with superheated steam tech of GER vessels, other navys that used wet steam instead had less problems as with superheated steam though. So the cain would be not that big for the latter.)

I guess that could be achived with a tech.
As Deutschland Class was the exeption in some areas like engine/armour/armament, it could be implemented easily in starting OOB.

Technology was not that far to be used in ships like Bismarck. They still needed more time to develop the Diesel of that size and thus Scharnhorst/Bismarck Class got steam turbines instead.
And right, it was planned to be used for "H-class" of the Z-plan too.


Gamewise:
Engine techs:
Wet steam -> upgade ->Superheated steam(more powerfull, less reliable firts maybe)
Diesel engine(for each size of ships:sub/TR - dd - cl - ca - bc/bb/cv..)
Combined diesel and gas engines (was been developed at the end of WW2(UK/GER) so that could be a tech too)

Benefit of steams in that combined setting was higher max speed for battle situations.
So we can get form that, that overall diesel only was some bit slower as steam and weight benefit would be lost for same speed maybe.

If we look at Deutschland Class and Hipper Class maybe(OK 4ktons different displacement and latter quite newer design..) we see that:

Hipper Class

Propulsion: 	

    3 × Blohm & Voss steam turbines
    3 × three-blade propellers
    132,000 shp (98 MW)

Speed: 	32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)
Range: 	6,800 nmi (12,600 km; 7,800 mi) at 20 kn (37 km/h; 23 mph)

Deutschland Class

Propulsion: 	

    Eight MAN diesel engines
    Two propellers
    52,050 shp (38,810 kW)

Speed: 	28 knots (52 km/h)
Range: 	10,000 nautical miles (19,000 km; 12,000 mi) at 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph)

 

[Ruthlesssamuria]

No Pocket battleships listed in tech tree just heavy cruisers which they used for PB's in HOI 3.

 

[Denkt]

And were classified as such by the germans. Afaik the only ones who called them pocket battleships were the brittish - likely so they could feel better about how much trouble a few ships managed to cause the royal navy

Specialization stuff like that is handled by the variant system

Could each point in variant engine give more range then engine tech do in HOI3?

 

[yanmagnus]

Didn't U-boats use a diesel engine for surface cruising? That's your diesel warship!
There could be some kind of "two-edged sword", say, get a better range and less speed, representing the diesel engines/steam turbines

 

[Director]

Really no power but Germany developed large-size diesel engines, and the Germans struggled mightily (and failed) to get diesels into their capital ships. Since no-one could build reliable big diesels the solution was to group multiple engines on the same shaft - sort of like putting 12 go-kart engines in your car. Space-wasteful, needing a lot of maintenance and cranky at the best of times.

USS Augusta is listed as having a range of 13,000 miles at 15 knots and Deutschland at 10,000 miles at 20 knots, so the German pocket-battleships were long-ranged only in relation to the Royal Navy (8,000 miles at 10 knots). You don't really need diesels for long range.

Technically the Deutschland-class were armored cruisers in the old, pre-WW1 sense. None of them were actually of legal weight (probably 25% to 33% over the legal limit) and they concentrated on heavy hitting power (the 11" gun was a good one) and long range. Germany would have made them faster if it was possible, but that class pushed the limits of diesel technology of the day. If you want to understand the design roots of the Deutschlands, go look at the British Black Prince, Scharnhorst of 1907 or the French Waldeck Rousseau. Smaller than battleships but having heavy gun-power for their size, some armor, enough speed to get away from a battleship (but not a turbine-powered one) and decent cruising range.

Diesel advantages - long range.
Disadvantages - makes a lot smoke when going to high power, takes a long time to spin up to full revolutions, hard to capture diesel oil at sea when most merchant ships used bunker oil, requires a lot of maintenance.

But the Deutschland-class were good ships. Had Graf Spee's captain been more determined at the River Plate, or Harwood less skillful and lucky, the class would have a very different reputation. One Deutschland was clearly worth three of the small trade-protection cruisers. But her captain faced the classic dilemma of a commerce raider - he could not go home to repair his damage and replace stores and munitions.

Still - good ships. No-one in the 30s could foresee that the ancient role of surface-ship commerce-raider would be dead by 1943. They were rightly respected.