Didn't see Poland and Spain suceed since Third Rome

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Vince75

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So, for once I got a successful Spain thanks to an alliance with France.

But I always got this.

1505991037-20170921125006-1.jpg


1505991036-20170921125009-1.jpg


Declares on Djolof and Djenne.

They have their whole army in Europe, with the transport fleet doing nothing. They could just invade in one time and win this, but no, they will probably lose cause they're doing... nothing.

EDIT : Actually, they sent their amy few months after... Wonder why they just sit doing nothing for months then do something...
 

ElGranCapitan

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Main issue I feel with Castille is that the historical outcome does not at all follow game-wise from the way it's setup. Castille has a terrible start, at least for a major power. They start with one ally in Portugal, but Portugal is basically useless. Portugal doesn't have a large army and only a decent navy, and starts the game getting involved with England's disastrous war with France and/or getting involved with defending territory in Africa that it can't defend without Castillian aid. If handled right Portugal can be some help, but especially for the AI it's worse than useless. There's good reason why a popular tactic is still to just eat Portugal.

Diplomacy is really weird in this patch..I've seen Castile get decent allies in earlier patches but they start neutral to everybody and when they have actually improved relations enough every meaningful ally has it's slots filled..like Austria (who is kind of a natural ally to Castile, both because of history and mutual rivals) filling it's diplo slots with free city opms - free cities, that don't help Austria at all and call the Emperor in anyway

There are other things that are so non-sensical it's cringe worthy. Like France and England rivaling Burgundy..the french and the english king were both trying to get Burgundy on their side. And Castile suffers from this bad diplomacy because it doesn't have anyone who starts friendly to them (only Portugal, and Aragon in 1/10 start when they don't rival each other)

In addition to that the Castilian king has -20% improve relations, that's just the icing on the cake

Then there's Aragon. They practically start rivaled. While Aragon is somewhat weaker than Castille it isn't by much and they've got good allies typically. Naples is a good draw, and getting France just demolishes Castille. They don't gain much there. And it's so very pointless if the PU pops up, as now two rivals come together after they've been spending money and manpower killing each other.

France is it's own problem, they start united when they really shouldn't, making them able to blob at a time when they should focus on internal affairs. France should be a bit more HRE-like, weaker on the offence but as strong or even a little stronger when attacked. I think a western Europe DLC is needed that adresses the HRE and France, with minor changes and flavour for Iberia, Italy and England

I agree that Aragon rivaling Castile is bad

Down south you've got foes that aren't up to par for Castille, but more than capable to take advantage if Castille gets weakened, and are usually willing to give it a go. If Castille wins such a fight, they get little as the lands aren't great, can't be converted till later, and are great for rebels. All while costing double the admin. But if they lose they lose territory. Terrible combo, lose/lose.

They've got pretty much the worst ruler setup imaginable. That certainly never helps. Terrible rulers, need to roll the die to get the PU to become like traditional Spain, and they'll spend the first years being backwards in tech advancement because they lack much connection to Italy. Made then worse by a disaster that just sucks. The rewards are terrible and the rebels are harsh.

The starting ruler could really be improved, at least by +1 in each stat

The Castilian civil war should always give Isabella as the Aragonese candidate. First it's weird when you got a female to trigger the wedding (since Aragon often has a male ruler/heir), and the Aragonese candidate is a male as well, so you decide for the Portuguese candidate to marry Aragon later. Had the Portuguese candidate won Castile would have ended up under a Portuguese PU

And second Isabella is a 5/6/3 if I remember the event correctly. Since you have to stay mil focused to not fall behind France early a ruler like Isabella would help catching up with adm/dip

Really right now you got 2 options, fall behind France in mil or fall behind Portugal in adm/dip and thus colonization
 

Steel_atlas

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France has 40% more development and 30% larger force limit at start. But after France gets back it's cores and annexes Brittany and Provence, it's development reaches 568, which is overwhelmingly more than the whole Iberia combined.
The other problem for Castile is England: it's +20% Naval Morale in traditions is such a huge advantage, that Castile\Spain can be kicked out from the colonies with relatively no efforts.


Yes, historical, but the fact that Spain was kicked by France constantly is completely not.

Spain should really get a lot of area wide claims, maybe even perma claims on mesos and incas through missions to increase their chances of gaining those crucial gold fleets from colonies. And the naval AI is a problem with Spain/Portugal, less than with GB but still



IMO the whole Iberia needs a decent rework: more development, better provinces, updated setup (Castile rivaling Aragon is a complete fantasy) and updated NIs (not sure about Castile, but Portugal and Aragon might enjoy a better army quality for sure).

No, no one plays Castile it's better to prioritize Persia
 

Arinsar

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Minor complain: Hungary-Poland are rivals 90% times. Despite Crusade of Varna and Wladyslav of Varna royal ties. And Ottoman manace is still there in 1444.
It would be nice to have some "best bros" mod at start, or some event to go close with Hungary instead of Lithuania.
That would be fun "what if".

Poland shared border with Hungary throught few centuries (they were never at war in history), there were really strong ties between two countries, yet in game for so called "balance" reason hungary is best pal with austria (historical friend) and Poland is their rival in 99% cases. In 1444 Teutonic order forces were close none, they relied on mercenaries (financed by loans and bohemia), also if Poland happen to win the war they cant get even close to that what they historically get in 2nd threaty of Thorn (in game if you take "that much aka 4 provinces" you will have all HRE against you - of course i am talking about ironman). Also events are screwed up like Privelige of Nieszawa it spawn 17-30k rebels i you get +5 tech cost -20% stability cost (in history this privelige happen so nobility agreed to pay extra tax to finance war effort in thirteen years war) so basicly it shouldnt happen if there is no war...
 

Arinsar

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Yeah the Hungary vs Poland rivalry is absurd, I dont think they ever fought a war against each other and shared the same rulers multiple times.

They did not. I dont remember who from PDX said that austria and hungary became friends because habsburgs were crushed if too often if they dont (hence they have historical friend bonus...). Poland had 3 rulers from hungary (Louis the Great, his daughter Jadwiga and Stephen Bathory who is wieldly considered one of best polish monarch), while hungary had 3 rulers from Jagielonian Dynasty (one created personal union between two countries).
 
Last edited:

evilcat

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They did not. I dont remember who from PDX said that austria and hungary became friends because habsburgs were crushed if too often if they dont (hence they have historical friend bonus...). Poland had 3 rulers from hungary (Louis the Great, his daughter Jadwiga and Stephen Bathory who is wieldly considered one of best polish monarch), while hungary had 2 rulers from Jagielonian Dynasty (one created personal union between two countries).

What about Wladyslaw of Warna?
 

Arinsar

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What about Wladyslaw of Warna?

I have wrote that Hungary had two rulers from Jagiellonian dynasty (Vladislaus II of Hungary and his uncle whom he never met Wladyslaw of Varna).
Another thing about Polish is fact that Lithiania is dirt poor once reneisance kicks in since they use edict to speed up spread of institution which doesnt allow them to field any reasonable army (merely 10k compared to 20-25k they are fielding at start of the game).
 

OBRkenobi

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holyvigil

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I can also confirm that Spain and Poland fail much more often. I have seen them succeed though. The most interesting result of this is that without Spain there is no Europa Universalis since most games the only European that colonizes the Southern coast of Africa, India, and the West Indies is the Ottoman Empire and trade with China and Japan doesn't happen.
 
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Steel_atlas

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Part of the problem is Europe struggles to fight anywhere outside of West Africa, and will keep conquering into West Africa if it manages to suceed.

I dont know if it is in game but the AI should be given the same priorities the player has, only take Trade Company Regions and move on once they have 50% of the trade power.

Also I think transports should work more as a pool then a unit.

Basically your transports should form a pool and allow your units to "march" through oceans, I think this would help the AI navigate better instead of having units to attach to.
 

bigaristotel

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My current game:
Gk6AbhiVTpE.jpg

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France is on the loose. And this is despite Castille getting inheritance.
Poland lost Moldavia in the first 5 years. Smolensk broke free.
Maybe its confirmation bias, but when you're not involved in the region - Iberia and Poland fail more often then not
 

f.l.

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A failing Poland at least does not change game play too much. Russia would be strong anyways, Ottoman would be strong anyway.
But a failing Castile really leads to non-immersive outcomes, especially as Portugal is usually dragged down as well.
 

Arinsar

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A failing Poland at least does not change game play too much. Russia would be strong anyways, Ottoman would be strong anyway.
But a failing Castile really leads to non-immersive outcomes, especially as Portugal is usually dragged down as well.

If Poland fails early game Muscovy have extremly easy game after eating Novogrod. In my opinion elective monarchy should be reworked and something have to be done with way alliances are made (TO very often gets alliance with BOTH Denmark - 60k and Hungary - 25k troops , and always have alliance with one of those countries, on top of that Livonian Order very often gets alliance with Muscovy so you are not able to touch them at all in any way possible and this is happening in first 10 years of the game). Strange that Habsburgs have event which puts one of them on Hungarian throne but Jagiellons dont.

Polish-Lithuanian Union was preventing Russian expansion to the west for first 200 years of gametime and with current game state in most cases this is not happening since they are having hard time beating TO...
 

Dominion

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If Poland fails early game Muscovy have extremly easy game after eating Novogrod.
Bollocks. Muscovy and later on Russia can just expand into Shirvan/Tabarestan.
And if that route is blocked they can waltz through Timmies/Persia.

Novgorod is filthy rich. If Muscovy gets enough of their land they can do whatever they want.
Especially on the current patch where they're able to colonize everything.
Hordes never put up a fight.

Lithuanian land is pure dirt. Barely any trade. Barely and goods. Barely any tax. People need to stop confusing size with power.
If anything fighting Commonwealth or Pol/Lit actually weakens Muscovy since they field a ton of decently strong troops early/midgame.
Continuous wars delay Russia's southeastern expansion and hamper their trade income in the long run.
 

Arinsar

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If Poland fails then Lithuania colapses and Muscovy eats it piece by piece especially that its getting claims on every province Lithuania owns. Also Lithuania AI develops provinces ouside capital , u can usually see 4-5 +- 20 development provinces.
 

Dominion

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You're jumping centuries here though.

Either you say Poland fails early and Muscovy eats them after Novgorod or you say Lithuania has 4-5 20+ dev provinces in 1600+.
Can't combine two things that are more than 100 years apart.

Besides, even with their supposedly 4-5 high dev provinces it's still barely worth the investment compared to Russia's other routes.
Not to mention that other routes get them closer to the Ottoman Empire without eating their POI and vice versa. Niche situation of course, but worth mentioning.
 

brifbates

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The only times I see Poland fail are when they refuse the PU then go ahead and attack the TO/LO alliance anyway (or when I splatter them but that is outside the scope of this discussion).
 

Arinsar

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You're jumping centuries here though.

Either you say Poland fails early and Muscovy eats them after Novgorod or you say Lithuania has 4-5 20+ dev provinces in 1600+.
Can't combine two things that are more than 100 years apart.

Besides, even with their supposedly 4-5 high dev provinces it's still barely worth the investment compared to Russia's other routes.
Not to mention that other routes get them closer to the Ottoman Empire without eating their POI and vice versa. Niche situation of course, but worth mentioning.

What i am saying is that if Poland fails early (which is happening very often in recent patch) result is that Lithuania feels its lands to Muscovy (of course not at game start ... this is happening much later usually around 1500 unless Lithuania gets torn by rebels then it starts happening earlier.