Just thought I would get a new thread started. This is the most ingnored American conflict, IMO because the US did not win the war. I want to hear some opinions on the subject.
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I believe the Canadians still get taught it in school
Wonder if that's something to do with the fact that Canada is actually still at war with the USA?
The USA was very lucky it ended when it did, they were gearing up to lose big time...
I've always had the impression that it was somewhat of a draw, with the Brits unable (because they had Boney to contend with) to move troops over and the U.S. having underestimated Canadian will to resist. But then again I've not studied that war too much.
On another "war"; have anyone got any info on the post-Civil War invasion of Canada conducted by independent Irish veterans from both sides, just after the Civil War ended? I remember reading an article about it in Military Illustrated a few years ago, but they're not excactly known to be extremely spesific nor especially reliable...
EF
On another "war"; have anyone got any info on the post-Civil War invasion of Canada conducted by independent Irish veterans from both sides, just after the Civil War ended? I remember reading an article about it in Military Illustrated a few years ago, but they're not excactly known to be extremely spesific nor especially reliable...
EF
In 1857 Irish Americans organized together to help free Ireland from Britain. By the end of the Civil War there were over 10 000 individuals in the organization, called the Fenian Movement. The Fenians' plan was to attack colonies in North America, which would force Britain to send troops, weakening her defenses in Ireland.
In April 1860 the first Fenian raid occurred in New Brunswick. The next attack was in the Niagara area of Ontario in 1866. At the Battle of Ridgeway, the Fenians were victorious. One month later they attacked Canada East at Missisquoi but were defeated.
For the next few years the Fenians attempted to regroup and in 1870 they attacked Quebec. A final raid was planned for Manitoba in efforts to unite the unhappy Metis with the Fenians. American authorities blocked this last attempt.
Just a quick summary of the Fenian raids. A Bizarre little chapter in history. The Fenians were mostly veterans of the Civil war.
In April 1860 the first Fenian raid occurred in New Brunswick. The next attack was in the Niagara area of Ontario in 1866. At the Battle of Ridgeway, the Fenians were victorious. One month later they attacked Canada East at Missisquoi but were defeated.
For the next few years the Fenians attempted to regroup and in 1870 they attacked Quebec. A final raid was planned for Manitoba in efforts to unite the unhappy Metis with the Fenians. American authorities blocked this last attempt.
Just a quick summary of the Fenian raids. A Bizarre little chapter in history. The Fenians were mostly veterans of the Civil war.
One idiot does not a victory make. Neither side could bring their full power to bear. The Americans had structural weaknesses to overcome, the British were distracted by Napoleon and other European affairs. It would have remained a stalemate had it continued. For example, their was no way that the Americans could break the blockade in any reasonable time-frame.
The Finian society financed The Finian Ram a 19 ton 33 foot submirsable, mounting a 9inch(229mm) compressed air underwater cannon. It was launched in 1881 having been built, was still in trials in 84 when the finians lost patience and hijacked it. its disgner was John Holland an irish american who went on to do better work on subs that enterd service with USA/UK USSR and Japan. This was was plauged by problems and ended up in Connecticut as a hulk, never having been used as was intended to attack british ships in the Hudson.
Hannibal
Hannibal
What's Victory?
Don't know what victory in the War of 1812 would have been. USA was not very united in war aims against the UK. New England was particularly unhappy about being at war with the UK. Both sides suffered some embarassments, USA failed in attempts to gain Canada, USA had capital burned by UK, USN cruisers showed that RN wasn't always invincible in any level of sea action, UK suffered an embarrassing defeat at New Orleans though it didn't affect the peace which was already made.
From my national point of view, my country didn't gain anything out of that conflict other than a hard to sing national anthem, but it was sure nice to make the Brits pay a price for their arrogant assumption of total sovereignty over the rest of the world at sea. Any real change in that situation would have taken a dedicated and serious naval alliance of most of the major sea powers of Europe.
Don't know what victory in the War of 1812 would have been. USA was not very united in war aims against the UK. New England was particularly unhappy about being at war with the UK. Both sides suffered some embarassments, USA failed in attempts to gain Canada, USA had capital burned by UK, USN cruisers showed that RN wasn't always invincible in any level of sea action, UK suffered an embarrassing defeat at New Orleans though it didn't affect the peace which was already made.
From my national point of view, my country didn't gain anything out of that conflict other than a hard to sing national anthem, but it was sure nice to make the Brits pay a price for their arrogant assumption of total sovereignty over the rest of the world at sea. Any real change in that situation would have taken a dedicated and serious naval alliance of most of the major sea powers of Europe.
The number of times I've gotten in arguments over this specific conflict is almost staggering.
Nearly every Canadian I have ever spoken to on the issue vehemently believes that they not only won, but they won an "absolute victory agains the United States and the United States lies about it to this day".
In my opinion neither side lost this war.
Canadians still seem to have trouble realizing this was a war between the United States of America and The British Empire.
The United States primary objective was to conquer Canada.
Britain's primary objective was to subjugate the United States, take away large parts of it's territory, and force the United States to pay huge indemnities.
Neither side achieved their objectives.
The United States failed to invade and conquer Canada, and the British failed to gain any of the things they were seeking.
After the British were driven out of Washington the War in my opinion became a stalemate with both sides only conducting small scale battles.
To say either nation "won" would really be incorrect.
Although I can understand the Canadians defending their belief that they won, considering Canada doesn't have a military history like the US. (No to insult the Canadians but their military forces have just had a much more limited impact on the world than the US).
This is my unbiased opinion, I'm not a citizen of either country.
Nearly every Canadian I have ever spoken to on the issue vehemently believes that they not only won, but they won an "absolute victory agains the United States and the United States lies about it to this day".
In my opinion neither side lost this war.
Canadians still seem to have trouble realizing this was a war between the United States of America and The British Empire.
The United States primary objective was to conquer Canada.
Britain's primary objective was to subjugate the United States, take away large parts of it's territory, and force the United States to pay huge indemnities.
Neither side achieved their objectives.
The United States failed to invade and conquer Canada, and the British failed to gain any of the things they were seeking.
After the British were driven out of Washington the War in my opinion became a stalemate with both sides only conducting small scale battles.
To say either nation "won" would really be incorrect.
Although I can understand the Canadians defending their belief that they won, considering Canada doesn't have a military history like the US. (No to insult the Canadians but their military forces have just had a much more limited impact on the world than the US).
This is my unbiased opinion, I'm not a citizen of either country.
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Ok, lets take this as a start and see where we go.......
Overwiew
America's involvement in the War of 1812 was confusing to many people living in 1812 and is still confusing to many people today. President Madison's war message to Congress made a strong case for the need to fight with Britain for Neutral Rights. He said that Britain was preying on American commerce, seizing her sailors, and supporting restless Indians on the frontier. At the same time, America had an interest in conquering Florida and annexing Canada.
As the country prepared for yet another war with Britain, the United States suffered from internal divisions. The congressional vote to enter the War of 1812 showed that many Americans were unclear about whether to fight and exactly what the war was all about. While the South and West favored war, New York and New England opposed it because it interfered with their commerce. The declaration of war had been made with military preparations still far from complete. There were fewer than 7,000 regular soldiers, distributed in widely scattered posts along the coast, near the Canadian border and in the remote interior. These soldiers were to be supported by the undisciplined militia of the states.
Hostilities between the two countries began with an invasion of Canada, which, if properly timed and executed, would have brought united action against Montreal. But the entire campaign miscarried and ended with the British occupation of Detroit. The U.S. Navy, however, scored successes and restored confidence. In addition, American privateers, swarming the Atlantic, captured 500 British vessels during the fall and winter months of 1812 and 1813.
The campaign of 1813 centered on Lake Erie. General William Henry Harrison -- who would later become president -- led an army of militia, volunteers and regulars from Kentucky with the object of reconquering Detroit. On September 12, while he was still in upper Ohio, news reached him that Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry had annihilated the British fleet on Lake Erie. Harrison occupied Detroit and pushed into Canada, defeating the fleeing British and their Indian allies on the Thames River. The entire region now came under American control.
Another decisive turn in the war occurred a year later when Commodore Thomas Macdonough won a point-blank gun duel with a British flotilla on Lake Champlain in upper New York. Deprived of naval support, a British invasion force of 10,000 men retreated to Canada. At about the same time, the British fleet was harassing the Eastern seaboard with orders to "destroy and lay waste." On the night of August 24, 1814, an expeditionary force burst into Washington, D.C., home of the federal government, and left it in flames. President James Madison fled to Virginia. American morale was at an all-time low when the British captured the City of Washington and burned the White House.
As the war continued, British and American negotiators each demanded concessions from the other. The British envoys decided to concede, however, when they learned of Macdonough's victory on Lake Champlain. Urged by the Duke of Wellington to reach a settlement, and faced with the depletion of the British treasury due in large part to the heavy costs of the Napoleonic Wars, the negotiators for Great Britain accepted the Treaty of Ghent negotiated in Belgium on December 24, 1814. It provided for the cessation of hostilities, the restoration of conquests and a commission to settle boundary disputes. Many people were unhappy about the Treaty of Ghent. They felt the document was weak and would not be honored.
While the British and Americans were negotiating a settlement, Federalist delegates selected by the legislatures of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Vermont and New Hampshire gathered in Hartford, Connecticut, in a meeting that symbolized opposition to "Mr. Madison's war." New England had managed to trade with the enemy throughout the conflict, and some areas actually prospered from this commerce. Nevertheless, the Federalists claimed that the war was ruining the economy. Some delegates to the convention advocated secession from the Union, but the majority agreed on a series of constitutional amendments to limit Republican influence, including prohibiting embargoes lasting more than 60 days and forbidding successive presidents from the same state. By the time messengers from the Hartford Convention reached Washington, D.C., however, they found the war had ended. The Hartford Convention stamped the Federalists with a stigma of disloyalty from which they never recovered.
Unaware that a peace treaty had been signed, the two sides continued fighting in New Orleans, Louisiana. Led by General Andrew Jackson, the Americans scored the greatest land victory of the war. General Andrew Jackson's leadership at the Battle of New Orleans changed everything. The battles with British troops at Chalmette on December 28, 1814, and January 1 and 8, 1815, are among the most decisive American military victories in US history. The Treaty of Ghent ending the War was quickly ratified by Congress.
Militry matters.
Canada 18 June 1812-17 February 1815
Chippewa 5 July 1814
Lundy's Lane 25 July 1814
Bladensburg 17-29 August 1814
McHenry 13 September 1814
New Orleans 23 September 1814-8 January 1815
Canada, 18 June 1812 - 17 February 1815. This campaign includes all operations in the Canadian-American border region except the battle of Chippewa and Lundy's Lane. The invasion and conquest of Canada was a major objective of the United States in the War of 1812. Among the significant causes of the war were the continuing clash of British and American interests in the Northwest Territory and the desire of frontier expansionists to seize Canada while Great Britain was preoccupied with the Napoleonic Wars.
In the first phase of the war along the border in 1812 the United States suffered a series of reverses. Fort Michilimackinac fell (6 August), Fort Dearborn was evacuated (15 August), and Fort Detroit surrendered without a fight (16 August). American attempts to invade Canada across the Niagara (October) and toward Montreal (November) failed completely. Brig. Gen. William Henry Harrison's move to recapture Detroit was repulsed (January 1813), but he checked British efforts to penetrate deeper into the region at the west end of Lake Erie, during the summer of 1813. Meanwhile, in April 1813, Maj. Gen. Henry Dearborn's expedition captured Fort Toronto and partially burned York, capital of Upper Canada. On 27 May Brig. Gen. Jacob Brown repelled a British assault on Sackett's Harbor. An American force led by Col. Winfield Scott seized Fort George and the town of Queenston across the Niagara (May-June 1813), but the British regained control of this area in December 1813. A two-pronged American drive on Montreal from Sackett's Harbor and Plattsburg in the fall of 1813 ended in a complete fiasco. Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry defeated the British fleet on Lake Erie (10 September 1813), opening the way for Harrison's victory at the Thames River (5 October), which reestablished American control over the Detroit Area.
Chippewa, 5 July 1814. An American advance from Plattsburg in March 1814, led by Maj. Gen. James Wilkinson, was checked just beyond the border, but on 3 July 3,500 men under General Brown seized Fort Erie across the Niagara in a coordinated attack with Commodore Isaac Chauncey's fleet designed to wrest control of Lake Ontario from the British. In subsequent troop maneuvers in the Niagara region, Brig. Gen. Winfield Scott's brigade (1,300 men) of Brown's command was unexpectedly confronted by a large British force while preparing for an Independence Day parade (5 July 1814) near the Chippewa River. Scott's well-trained troops broke the enemy line with a skillfully executed charge, sending the survivors into a hasty retreat. British losses were 137 killed and 304 wounded; American, 48 killed and 227 wounded.
Lundy's Lane, 25 July 1814. After Chippewa Brown's force advanced to Queenston, but soon abandoned a proposed attack on Forts George and Niagara when Chauncey's fleet failed to cooperate in the operation. Instead, on 24-25 July 1814, Brown moved back to the Chippewa preparatory to a cross-country march along Lundy's Lane to the west end of Lake Ontario. Unknown to Brown, the British had concentrated about 2,200 troops in the vicinity of Lundy's Lane and 1,500 more in Forts George and Niagara. On 25 July, Scott's brigade, moving again towards Queenston in an effort to draw off a British detachment threatening Brown's line of communications on the American side of the Niagara, ran into the enemy contingents at the junction of Queenston Road and Lundy's Lane. The ensuing battle, which eventually involved all of Brown's force (2,900 men) and some 3,000 British, was fiercely fought and neither side gained a clear cut victory. The Americans retired to the Chippewa unmolested, but the battle terminated Brown's invasion of Canada. Casualties were heavy on both sides, the British losing 878 and the Americans 854 in killed and wounded; both Brown and Scott were wounded and the British commander was wounded and captured. British siege of Fort Erie (2 August - 21 September 1814) failed to drive the Americans from that outpost on Canadian soil, but on 5 November they withdrew voluntarily. Commodore Thomas Macdonough's victory over the British fleet on Lake Champlain (11 September 1814) compelled Sir George Prevost, Governor General of Canada, to call off his attack on Plattsburg with 11,000 troops.
Bladensburg, 17 - 29 August 1814. After the surrender of Napoleon the British dispatched Maj. Gen. Robert Ross from France on 27 June 1814 with 4,000 veterans to raid key points on the American coast. Ross landed at the mouth of the Patuxent River in Maryland with Washington as his objective on 19 August and marched as far as Upper Marlboro (22 August) without meeting resistance. Meanwhile, Brig. Gen. William Winder, in command of the Potomac District, had assembled a mixed force of about 5,000 men near Bladensburg, including militia, regulars, and some 400 sailors from Commodore Joshua Barney's gunboat flotilla, which had been destroyed to avoid capture by the British fleet. In spite of a considerable advantage in numbers and position, the Americans were easily routed by Ross' force. British losses were about 249 killed and wounded; the Americans lost about 100 killed and wounded, and 100 captured. British detachments entered the city and burned the Capitol and other public buildings (24-25 August) in what was later announced as retaliation for the American destruction at York.
Fort McHenry, 13 September 1814. While the British marched on Washington, Baltimore had time to hastily strengthen its defenses. Maj. Gen. Samuel Smith had about 9,000 militia, including 1,000 in Fort McHenry guarding the harbor. On 12 September the British landed at North Point about 14 miles below the city, where their advance was momentarily checked by 3,200 Maryland Militiamen. Thirty-nine British (including General Ross) were killed and 251 wounded at a cost of 24 Americans killed, 139 wounded, and 50 taken prisoner. After their fleet failed to reduce Fort McHenry by bombardment and boat attack (night of 13-14 September), the British decided that a land attack on the rather formidable fortifications defending the city would be too costly and on 14 October sailed for Jamaica. Francis Scott Key, after observing the unsuccessful British bombardment of Fort McHenry, was inspired to compose the verses of "The Star Spangled Banner."
New Orleans, 23 December 1814 - 8 January 1815. On 20 December 1814 a force of about 10,000 British troops, assembled in Jamaica, landed unopposed at the west end of Lake Borgne, some 15 miles from New Orleans, preparatory to an attempt to seize the city and secure control of the lower Mississippi Valley. Advanced elements pushed quickly toward the river, reaching Villere's Plantation on the left bank, 10 miles below New Orleans, on 23 December. In a swift counter-action, Maj. Gen. Andrew Jackson, American commander in the South, who had only arrived in the city on 1 December, made a night attack on the British (23-24 December) with some 2,0000 men supported by fire from the gunboat Carolina. The British advance was checked, giving Jackson time to fall back to a dry canal about five miles south of New Orleans, where he built a breastworks about a mile long, with the right flank on the river and the left in a cypress swamp. A composite force of about 3,500 militia, regulars, sailors, and others manned the American main line, with another 1,000 in reserve. A smaller force, perhaps 1,000 militia under Brig. Gen. David Morgan defended the right bank of the river. Maj. Gen. Sir Edward Pakenham, brother-in-law of the Duke of Wellington, arrived on 25 December to command the British operation. He entrenched his troops and on 1 January 1815 fought an artillery duel in with the Americans outgunned the British artillerists. Finally, at dawn on 8 January, Pakenham attempted a frontal assault on Jackson's breastworks with 5,300 men, simultaneously sending a smaller force across the river to attack Morgan's defenses. The massed fires of Jackson's troops, protected by earthworks reinforced with cotton bales, wrought havoc among Pakenham's regulars as they advanced across the open ground in front of the American lines. In less than a half hour the attack was repulsed. The British lost 291 killed, including Pakenham, 1,262 wounded, and 48 prisoners; American losses on both sides of the 4iver were only 13 killed, 39 wounded, and 19 prisoners. The surviving British troops withdrew to Lake Borgne and reembarked on 27 January for Mobile, where on 14 February they learned that the Treaty of Ghent, ending the war, had been signed on 24 December 1814.
Hannibal
Overwiew
America's involvement in the War of 1812 was confusing to many people living in 1812 and is still confusing to many people today. President Madison's war message to Congress made a strong case for the need to fight with Britain for Neutral Rights. He said that Britain was preying on American commerce, seizing her sailors, and supporting restless Indians on the frontier. At the same time, America had an interest in conquering Florida and annexing Canada.
As the country prepared for yet another war with Britain, the United States suffered from internal divisions. The congressional vote to enter the War of 1812 showed that many Americans were unclear about whether to fight and exactly what the war was all about. While the South and West favored war, New York and New England opposed it because it interfered with their commerce. The declaration of war had been made with military preparations still far from complete. There were fewer than 7,000 regular soldiers, distributed in widely scattered posts along the coast, near the Canadian border and in the remote interior. These soldiers were to be supported by the undisciplined militia of the states.
Hostilities between the two countries began with an invasion of Canada, which, if properly timed and executed, would have brought united action against Montreal. But the entire campaign miscarried and ended with the British occupation of Detroit. The U.S. Navy, however, scored successes and restored confidence. In addition, American privateers, swarming the Atlantic, captured 500 British vessels during the fall and winter months of 1812 and 1813.
The campaign of 1813 centered on Lake Erie. General William Henry Harrison -- who would later become president -- led an army of militia, volunteers and regulars from Kentucky with the object of reconquering Detroit. On September 12, while he was still in upper Ohio, news reached him that Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry had annihilated the British fleet on Lake Erie. Harrison occupied Detroit and pushed into Canada, defeating the fleeing British and their Indian allies on the Thames River. The entire region now came under American control.
Another decisive turn in the war occurred a year later when Commodore Thomas Macdonough won a point-blank gun duel with a British flotilla on Lake Champlain in upper New York. Deprived of naval support, a British invasion force of 10,000 men retreated to Canada. At about the same time, the British fleet was harassing the Eastern seaboard with orders to "destroy and lay waste." On the night of August 24, 1814, an expeditionary force burst into Washington, D.C., home of the federal government, and left it in flames. President James Madison fled to Virginia. American morale was at an all-time low when the British captured the City of Washington and burned the White House.
As the war continued, British and American negotiators each demanded concessions from the other. The British envoys decided to concede, however, when they learned of Macdonough's victory on Lake Champlain. Urged by the Duke of Wellington to reach a settlement, and faced with the depletion of the British treasury due in large part to the heavy costs of the Napoleonic Wars, the negotiators for Great Britain accepted the Treaty of Ghent negotiated in Belgium on December 24, 1814. It provided for the cessation of hostilities, the restoration of conquests and a commission to settle boundary disputes. Many people were unhappy about the Treaty of Ghent. They felt the document was weak and would not be honored.
While the British and Americans were negotiating a settlement, Federalist delegates selected by the legislatures of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Vermont and New Hampshire gathered in Hartford, Connecticut, in a meeting that symbolized opposition to "Mr. Madison's war." New England had managed to trade with the enemy throughout the conflict, and some areas actually prospered from this commerce. Nevertheless, the Federalists claimed that the war was ruining the economy. Some delegates to the convention advocated secession from the Union, but the majority agreed on a series of constitutional amendments to limit Republican influence, including prohibiting embargoes lasting more than 60 days and forbidding successive presidents from the same state. By the time messengers from the Hartford Convention reached Washington, D.C., however, they found the war had ended. The Hartford Convention stamped the Federalists with a stigma of disloyalty from which they never recovered.
Unaware that a peace treaty had been signed, the two sides continued fighting in New Orleans, Louisiana. Led by General Andrew Jackson, the Americans scored the greatest land victory of the war. General Andrew Jackson's leadership at the Battle of New Orleans changed everything. The battles with British troops at Chalmette on December 28, 1814, and January 1 and 8, 1815, are among the most decisive American military victories in US history. The Treaty of Ghent ending the War was quickly ratified by Congress.
Militry matters.
Canada 18 June 1812-17 February 1815
Chippewa 5 July 1814
Lundy's Lane 25 July 1814
Bladensburg 17-29 August 1814
McHenry 13 September 1814
New Orleans 23 September 1814-8 January 1815
Canada, 18 June 1812 - 17 February 1815. This campaign includes all operations in the Canadian-American border region except the battle of Chippewa and Lundy's Lane. The invasion and conquest of Canada was a major objective of the United States in the War of 1812. Among the significant causes of the war were the continuing clash of British and American interests in the Northwest Territory and the desire of frontier expansionists to seize Canada while Great Britain was preoccupied with the Napoleonic Wars.
In the first phase of the war along the border in 1812 the United States suffered a series of reverses. Fort Michilimackinac fell (6 August), Fort Dearborn was evacuated (15 August), and Fort Detroit surrendered without a fight (16 August). American attempts to invade Canada across the Niagara (October) and toward Montreal (November) failed completely. Brig. Gen. William Henry Harrison's move to recapture Detroit was repulsed (January 1813), but he checked British efforts to penetrate deeper into the region at the west end of Lake Erie, during the summer of 1813. Meanwhile, in April 1813, Maj. Gen. Henry Dearborn's expedition captured Fort Toronto and partially burned York, capital of Upper Canada. On 27 May Brig. Gen. Jacob Brown repelled a British assault on Sackett's Harbor. An American force led by Col. Winfield Scott seized Fort George and the town of Queenston across the Niagara (May-June 1813), but the British regained control of this area in December 1813. A two-pronged American drive on Montreal from Sackett's Harbor and Plattsburg in the fall of 1813 ended in a complete fiasco. Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry defeated the British fleet on Lake Erie (10 September 1813), opening the way for Harrison's victory at the Thames River (5 October), which reestablished American control over the Detroit Area.
Chippewa, 5 July 1814. An American advance from Plattsburg in March 1814, led by Maj. Gen. James Wilkinson, was checked just beyond the border, but on 3 July 3,500 men under General Brown seized Fort Erie across the Niagara in a coordinated attack with Commodore Isaac Chauncey's fleet designed to wrest control of Lake Ontario from the British. In subsequent troop maneuvers in the Niagara region, Brig. Gen. Winfield Scott's brigade (1,300 men) of Brown's command was unexpectedly confronted by a large British force while preparing for an Independence Day parade (5 July 1814) near the Chippewa River. Scott's well-trained troops broke the enemy line with a skillfully executed charge, sending the survivors into a hasty retreat. British losses were 137 killed and 304 wounded; American, 48 killed and 227 wounded.
Lundy's Lane, 25 July 1814. After Chippewa Brown's force advanced to Queenston, but soon abandoned a proposed attack on Forts George and Niagara when Chauncey's fleet failed to cooperate in the operation. Instead, on 24-25 July 1814, Brown moved back to the Chippewa preparatory to a cross-country march along Lundy's Lane to the west end of Lake Ontario. Unknown to Brown, the British had concentrated about 2,200 troops in the vicinity of Lundy's Lane and 1,500 more in Forts George and Niagara. On 25 July, Scott's brigade, moving again towards Queenston in an effort to draw off a British detachment threatening Brown's line of communications on the American side of the Niagara, ran into the enemy contingents at the junction of Queenston Road and Lundy's Lane. The ensuing battle, which eventually involved all of Brown's force (2,900 men) and some 3,000 British, was fiercely fought and neither side gained a clear cut victory. The Americans retired to the Chippewa unmolested, but the battle terminated Brown's invasion of Canada. Casualties were heavy on both sides, the British losing 878 and the Americans 854 in killed and wounded; both Brown and Scott were wounded and the British commander was wounded and captured. British siege of Fort Erie (2 August - 21 September 1814) failed to drive the Americans from that outpost on Canadian soil, but on 5 November they withdrew voluntarily. Commodore Thomas Macdonough's victory over the British fleet on Lake Champlain (11 September 1814) compelled Sir George Prevost, Governor General of Canada, to call off his attack on Plattsburg with 11,000 troops.
Bladensburg, 17 - 29 August 1814. After the surrender of Napoleon the British dispatched Maj. Gen. Robert Ross from France on 27 June 1814 with 4,000 veterans to raid key points on the American coast. Ross landed at the mouth of the Patuxent River in Maryland with Washington as his objective on 19 August and marched as far as Upper Marlboro (22 August) without meeting resistance. Meanwhile, Brig. Gen. William Winder, in command of the Potomac District, had assembled a mixed force of about 5,000 men near Bladensburg, including militia, regulars, and some 400 sailors from Commodore Joshua Barney's gunboat flotilla, which had been destroyed to avoid capture by the British fleet. In spite of a considerable advantage in numbers and position, the Americans were easily routed by Ross' force. British losses were about 249 killed and wounded; the Americans lost about 100 killed and wounded, and 100 captured. British detachments entered the city and burned the Capitol and other public buildings (24-25 August) in what was later announced as retaliation for the American destruction at York.
Fort McHenry, 13 September 1814. While the British marched on Washington, Baltimore had time to hastily strengthen its defenses. Maj. Gen. Samuel Smith had about 9,000 militia, including 1,000 in Fort McHenry guarding the harbor. On 12 September the British landed at North Point about 14 miles below the city, where their advance was momentarily checked by 3,200 Maryland Militiamen. Thirty-nine British (including General Ross) were killed and 251 wounded at a cost of 24 Americans killed, 139 wounded, and 50 taken prisoner. After their fleet failed to reduce Fort McHenry by bombardment and boat attack (night of 13-14 September), the British decided that a land attack on the rather formidable fortifications defending the city would be too costly and on 14 October sailed for Jamaica. Francis Scott Key, after observing the unsuccessful British bombardment of Fort McHenry, was inspired to compose the verses of "The Star Spangled Banner."
New Orleans, 23 December 1814 - 8 January 1815. On 20 December 1814 a force of about 10,000 British troops, assembled in Jamaica, landed unopposed at the west end of Lake Borgne, some 15 miles from New Orleans, preparatory to an attempt to seize the city and secure control of the lower Mississippi Valley. Advanced elements pushed quickly toward the river, reaching Villere's Plantation on the left bank, 10 miles below New Orleans, on 23 December. In a swift counter-action, Maj. Gen. Andrew Jackson, American commander in the South, who had only arrived in the city on 1 December, made a night attack on the British (23-24 December) with some 2,0000 men supported by fire from the gunboat Carolina. The British advance was checked, giving Jackson time to fall back to a dry canal about five miles south of New Orleans, where he built a breastworks about a mile long, with the right flank on the river and the left in a cypress swamp. A composite force of about 3,500 militia, regulars, sailors, and others manned the American main line, with another 1,000 in reserve. A smaller force, perhaps 1,000 militia under Brig. Gen. David Morgan defended the right bank of the river. Maj. Gen. Sir Edward Pakenham, brother-in-law of the Duke of Wellington, arrived on 25 December to command the British operation. He entrenched his troops and on 1 January 1815 fought an artillery duel in with the Americans outgunned the British artillerists. Finally, at dawn on 8 January, Pakenham attempted a frontal assault on Jackson's breastworks with 5,300 men, simultaneously sending a smaller force across the river to attack Morgan's defenses. The massed fires of Jackson's troops, protected by earthworks reinforced with cotton bales, wrought havoc among Pakenham's regulars as they advanced across the open ground in front of the American lines. In less than a half hour the attack was repulsed. The British lost 291 killed, including Pakenham, 1,262 wounded, and 48 prisoners; American losses on both sides of the 4iver were only 13 killed, 39 wounded, and 19 prisoners. The surviving British troops withdrew to Lake Borgne and reembarked on 27 January for Mobile, where on 14 February they learned that the Treaty of Ghent, ending the war, had been signed on 24 December 1814.
Hannibal
It's probably a good example of war-weariness in action, that the British were really half-hearted about prosecuting the war, even after the exile of Napoleon gave them plentiful resources to do so.
The reason I consider this lucky for the US was the British plans to intensify the war, which never took place. These included shipping over Wellington and his Peninsular veterans, as well as a significant portion of the Royal Navy. While the US had shown that at last the Royal Navy had met a force that could fight them on even terms (remember, they'd been used to defeating enemies against odds for a considerable time), the US would have been outnmbered around 25:1... And I suspect that Wellington would have been able to exploit his forces as efficiently as he did against France. Indeed, New orleans could have worked against the US, in giving them a false sense of security - one which I suspect they would have quickly been disabused of!
The reason I consider this lucky for the US was the British plans to intensify the war, which never took place. These included shipping over Wellington and his Peninsular veterans, as well as a significant portion of the Royal Navy. While the US had shown that at last the Royal Navy had met a force that could fight them on even terms (remember, they'd been used to defeating enemies against odds for a considerable time), the US would have been outnmbered around 25:1... And I suspect that Wellington would have been able to exploit his forces as efficiently as he did against France. Indeed, New orleans could have worked against the US, in giving them a false sense of security - one which I suspect they would have quickly been disabused of!
IMO, it was a draw.
Britain was tired and weary of the Napoleonic Wars. And the USA wasn't united. The US failed in their attempt to invade Canada, but the Brits certainly didn't have a decisive victory. And the USN put up a damn good fight for its size.
Britain was tired and weary of the Napoleonic Wars. And the USA wasn't united. The US failed in their attempt to invade Canada, but the Brits certainly didn't have a decisive victory. And the USN put up a damn good fight for its size.
The War of 1812 was a relatively uneventful goalless draw, an inauspicious start for the newly formed American team, but a creditable result against one of the contenders for the European Championships.
Although English fans may claim quite rightly, that a friendly match on the other side of the Atlantic, after a particularly long season, and timed so close to the critical semi-final against France was never going to produce many exciting moments. In fact, after a dour second half where neither side showed much ambition in front of goal, the most excitement came in controversial fashion after the final whistle. Jackson was sent clear, and appeared to score, but despite a hail of protests, the referee claimed that he had already blown full time. Replays clearly show the referee to be correct, although many feel that he should have left the play develop rather than calling time in the middle of an attack.
The match was a bitter blow for US fans who hoped to see the sport take off here. Instead, reduced to yearly intramural contest against a disorganized US Indian team, and a brief, yet successful tour of Mexico, the sport was still in it's infancy almost a century later.
Much like the Colts V Giants raised the NFL to prime time material, so too did the US V Spain match. Although clearly on the decline, and hampered by infighting by some of their star players, Spain was still rated a force to be reckoned with. America's win captured the imagination of the nation and ensured that war would take it's rightful place in the hearts, and newspaper sports sections of the country.
In their first major European Tournament, the team gave a creditable display in France, and while it was a surprise that FIFA again chose France for the next World Cup, there could be no doubt that the US would be a major competitor. After an early shock exit of hosts France, the US romped home, thrashing a German side which had been weakened by their long extra-time fixture against Britain. While most expected the East and Western group winners to play a deciding title game, we are left wondering what a US V Russia match may have looked like. Even to this day speculation as to whether Patton, or Zhukov would have starred rages.
With America at the top of their game, it was surprising that they failed to see off newcomers China, and the loss in Vietnam was an upset of epic proportions. Even the reports of Vietnam fans making noise outside the US hotel, and a bout of food poisoning suffered by many of the players cannot excuse that disaster.
In fact the US appears to have peaked at the worst possible moment, the sport has declined in Europe, and with the excessive crowd problems seen during France 1940, Europe has so far refused to host another major competition.
The US has been reduced to playing low key matches against a surprisingly weak Iraqi team which showed such early promise to be dubbed "the team of the 80's," and US entry into the Balkan Invitational was criticized, given the amateur status of the sport in that region.
As Russia has abandoned hopes of capturing a world title, instead changing their focus to hockey, pundits now look for a rematch against China. Americans are left speculating as to how different things may have been had Jackson's goal counted in that first match. Surely entry in the Prussian Cup would have left the team much better prepared for their first French Tournament.
The other team playing that day can rightly feel slighted for the unofficial taint on their unbeaten record, and 1812 marks a blip on an otherwise flawless century. Beating France in a fixture which had to be moved to Belgium, they went on to dominate the sport until again showing a weakness when playing away from home with another dour draw against Russia.
Although English fans may claim quite rightly, that a friendly match on the other side of the Atlantic, after a particularly long season, and timed so close to the critical semi-final against France was never going to produce many exciting moments. In fact, after a dour second half where neither side showed much ambition in front of goal, the most excitement came in controversial fashion after the final whistle. Jackson was sent clear, and appeared to score, but despite a hail of protests, the referee claimed that he had already blown full time. Replays clearly show the referee to be correct, although many feel that he should have left the play develop rather than calling time in the middle of an attack.
The match was a bitter blow for US fans who hoped to see the sport take off here. Instead, reduced to yearly intramural contest against a disorganized US Indian team, and a brief, yet successful tour of Mexico, the sport was still in it's infancy almost a century later.
Much like the Colts V Giants raised the NFL to prime time material, so too did the US V Spain match. Although clearly on the decline, and hampered by infighting by some of their star players, Spain was still rated a force to be reckoned with. America's win captured the imagination of the nation and ensured that war would take it's rightful place in the hearts, and newspaper sports sections of the country.
In their first major European Tournament, the team gave a creditable display in France, and while it was a surprise that FIFA again chose France for the next World Cup, there could be no doubt that the US would be a major competitor. After an early shock exit of hosts France, the US romped home, thrashing a German side which had been weakened by their long extra-time fixture against Britain. While most expected the East and Western group winners to play a deciding title game, we are left wondering what a US V Russia match may have looked like. Even to this day speculation as to whether Patton, or Zhukov would have starred rages.
With America at the top of their game, it was surprising that they failed to see off newcomers China, and the loss in Vietnam was an upset of epic proportions. Even the reports of Vietnam fans making noise outside the US hotel, and a bout of food poisoning suffered by many of the players cannot excuse that disaster.
In fact the US appears to have peaked at the worst possible moment, the sport has declined in Europe, and with the excessive crowd problems seen during France 1940, Europe has so far refused to host another major competition.
The US has been reduced to playing low key matches against a surprisingly weak Iraqi team which showed such early promise to be dubbed "the team of the 80's," and US entry into the Balkan Invitational was criticized, given the amateur status of the sport in that region.
As Russia has abandoned hopes of capturing a world title, instead changing their focus to hockey, pundits now look for a rematch against China. Americans are left speculating as to how different things may have been had Jackson's goal counted in that first match. Surely entry in the Prussian Cup would have left the team much better prepared for their first French Tournament.
The other team playing that day can rightly feel slighted for the unofficial taint on their unbeaten record, and 1812 marks a blip on an otherwise flawless century. Beating France in a fixture which had to be moved to Belgium, they went on to dominate the sport until again showing a weakness when playing away from home with another dour draw against Russia.
Excellent!!! LOL!!!
So the US continues to play well away from home, but still always looking for that "big win", to set the world alight. But considering recent form, its not surprising any creditable openents have come foreward, however the US has adopted a more flexable 3-5-2 formation so as to able to play on any venue at short notice. And has shown a willingness to take on any and all commers, they have a wonderful display of talent at present, this may have limited their participation in any major tournament, as fans are nowdays wary of a mismatch, a one sidded win would draw poor viewing figures, and no one wants that.
Their worst home performence being the "late unfriendly" game, back in the 61 season, despite huge home intrest, was marred by several own goals, and even some crowd trouble amongst over intrested fans. These brought about the need for more Umpires in their domestic season, but has not caught on elswhere.
This is is sharp contrast to the UK, who have for a long time avoided a home fixture, prefering to play away whenever posable, former undisputed champions, who now through injury are unable to compet effectivly, and many commentaters say should move down a division to stand a realistic chance, despite a good showing in the away to the Argentine, and a creditable second half effort in joint game in Kuwait, purists have of course critised the choice of a permanent unfriendly series in Belfast that has not brought new stars to the publics eye, and may have harmed the games image abroad. As a former internationl player in some of these fixtures, forced onto injured reserve through a late chalange, i can only lament the poor performence the UK is likly to achieve in any upcomming major tournements. I blame it on Kegans 4-4-2 policy, we just dont have the quality we used to....
Ps dont get me started on Patton.....i only have to point to the 42/3 season to show him a poor team player, although a gifted individual he tended to hog the ball and got overexited in the last 6 yards, i believe his mind was on the next fixture rather than the current one. Montgomery on the other hand....
Hannibal
So the US continues to play well away from home, but still always looking for that "big win", to set the world alight. But considering recent form, its not surprising any creditable openents have come foreward, however the US has adopted a more flexable 3-5-2 formation so as to able to play on any venue at short notice. And has shown a willingness to take on any and all commers, they have a wonderful display of talent at present, this may have limited their participation in any major tournament, as fans are nowdays wary of a mismatch, a one sidded win would draw poor viewing figures, and no one wants that.
Their worst home performence being the "late unfriendly" game, back in the 61 season, despite huge home intrest, was marred by several own goals, and even some crowd trouble amongst over intrested fans. These brought about the need for more Umpires in their domestic season, but has not caught on elswhere.
This is is sharp contrast to the UK, who have for a long time avoided a home fixture, prefering to play away whenever posable, former undisputed champions, who now through injury are unable to compet effectivly, and many commentaters say should move down a division to stand a realistic chance, despite a good showing in the away to the Argentine, and a creditable second half effort in joint game in Kuwait, purists have of course critised the choice of a permanent unfriendly series in Belfast that has not brought new stars to the publics eye, and may have harmed the games image abroad. As a former internationl player in some of these fixtures, forced onto injured reserve through a late chalange, i can only lament the poor performence the UK is likly to achieve in any upcomming major tournements. I blame it on Kegans 4-4-2 policy, we just dont have the quality we used to....
Ps dont get me started on Patton.....i only have to point to the 42/3 season to show him a poor team player, although a gifted individual he tended to hog the ball and got overexited in the last 6 yards, i believe his mind was on the next fixture rather than the current one. Montgomery on the other hand....
Hannibal
I know it kills a joke to explain, but I am very curious as to how formation (3/5/2, 4/4/2) relates to war-making. Also, this word "fixture." Is this just a fancy way of saying a game? Is this recent?
Formations (3/5/2, 4/4/2), attempted double word play as to BG counters att/Def/Mov values, also formations in soccer that are likened to man to man, blitz, etc terms in Gridiron. Some being more aggressive than others depending if a win or a draw is required. Fixture, is apparantly a UK term, it means pre determined game. Prussian Cup is to the Franco Prussian tournament that goes way back in time, a keenly contested series, as a look at former internationals will show..
1939-45 Season "Von Strum Vogel, Nights cross with Oak leaves, lost in final to US, we tried hard, but had Managerial problems".
1914-18 Season "Count Ketzler, Iron cross second class, lost in final to US, technical problems of field prevented our team fron peak performance".
1870-71 Season "Fuisiler Heinz, no medals, won in regulation time 2-0 against a spirited french team highly rated to take the tournament".
Hannibal, soon to be substituted for a wittier poster.
1939-45 Season "Von Strum Vogel, Nights cross with Oak leaves, lost in final to US, we tried hard, but had Managerial problems".
1914-18 Season "Count Ketzler, Iron cross second class, lost in final to US, technical problems of field prevented our team fron peak performance".
1870-71 Season "Fuisiler Heinz, no medals, won in regulation time 2-0 against a spirited french team highly rated to take the tournament".
Hannibal, soon to be substituted for a wittier poster.
God, are we all stuck with the Americanism "soccer" now!
Perhaps the Germans overly used the 4-3-3 formation in their matches, explaining the American success in their away games.
Perhaps the Germans overly used the 4-3-3 formation in their matches, explaining the American success in their away games.
Thanks.
And I'm assuming he used soccer because he knew I was a Yank and might be easily addled by the term football.
And I'm assuming he used soccer because he knew I was a Yank and might be easily addled by the term football.