Did the AI get way dumber in 1.13?

[myrsl0ken]

I have an 1.13 Aragon game going where I have been slowly eating through a fully formed France with the help of Austria (without the inheritance). The two of us were evenly matched against the BBB so we really needed to work together, and it took me a while to figure out how the AI prioritized, but now in the third war I've gotten the hang of it. When I really need them to help me win a close fight they have left sieges straight away just like they should. On the other hand when I'm handedly winning fights, they have kept sieges going and even sometimes when I've been sloppy and gotten into crushing defeats, they have ignored me like the silly noob I was playing like. I have even had GB land forces in a sort of reasonable manner and my Hispaniola helping me with French mexico!

I have noticed the AI not cancelling moves it could have, and it does siege with doomstacks occasionally and loose all their manpower, which are issues. But at least from my experience it's working really well. Ofc, I always keep my own siege stacks on all of the super important sieges, and sometimes I have to follow the AI to where they are sieging to not split our forces up, but those are simple cues that I, as an actual intelligence, can pick up on and learn to work with. And is that really too much to ask?

 

[Monkbel]

Like sucks badly with manpower. Like real bad....................

Actually I don't think i'm getting the point across.

Its bad.

What do you guys mean? How exactly does AI suck with manpower? I didn't notice anything unusual.

 

[Angmokhan]

Guys you all have to understand its not easy to fix those AI behaviors given there are so many different type of situations & they are merely directed by a script. Please phrase the complaints nicely lol.

Anyway i think the 1.13 AI is pretty awesome, just got wiped by a coalition, so long since a game AI can crush me like ants. Kudos to Wiz

 

[Aries666]

What do you guys mean? How exactly does AI suck with manpower? I didn't notice anything unusual.

Wanders around with a stack greater than the supply limit of a province, it also links up with other AI armies and wanders around in a larger stack taking more attrition. It sieges with way more troops than necessary and will join you or other nations in a siege just to take even more attrition. It was less noticeable prior to 1.12 as there were far fewer movement restriction due to forts and it is better in 1.13 but it is still noticeable.

 

[lolada]

Guys you all have to understand its not easy to fix those AI behaviors given there are so many different type of situations & they are merely directed by a script. Please phrase the complaints nicely lol.

Anyway i think the 1.13 AI is pretty awesome, just got wiped by a coalition, so long since a game AI can crush me like ants. Kudos to Wiz

Yeah its possible to lose, AI is doing quite well -_- i also lost one game as Qara Qoyunlu even after good start. Went into bad war vs Ottomans and everyone and their mother dowed me when they saw i am weak. Next try i lost a few wars, Ottos are a pain, but eventually wiped them of the map (thanks op Commonwealth). For example i fed vassal Syria a bit and lost some units in the war, they went over 50 % liberty, and before i knew Ottos supported their independance. Next month Syria dowed me, i just accepted demands -_-, reconquered them later. Better than to lose all army and much more.

I was also nicely surprised when Russia dowed me with 100k units (they know when you are weak, especially if you have rebels in the country), i was already big so i defended to white peace without too much problems. I don't recall before ever being attacked before when i got a bit large.

People mostly complains when big countries lose, but its not that AI is bad, even the player can lose with France or Austria if not playing careful.

 

[Bobby555nc]

Ive been trying to get the Granada takes all of spain achievement, and Ive noticed that the AI focuses on local wars its already won over helping allies. Lots of freezing as well, particularly devastating is when the ai armies become "Exiled" because they were in a country that made peace. A 25 stack of the AI sat in the same province, exiled and unable to be attacked or attack themselves for years without moving.

On a separate issue, I declare war on Tlecomen (spelling?) who sometimes now is soemtimes allied to the Ottomans since the beta, if the Ottos are at war locally with a 4 or 5 province country, then I'm fine, as they never send troops or a navy. The troops they are using for seiging, but their navy is almost completely free to help its allies, but it stays locally. Another problem is the Ottos lowering of my war score, and them getting almost 0 war exhaustion during a 4 or 5 year war, while they do nothing. I think an ai or player who does nothing in a war for years should get increased war exhaustion so they cant just "wait it out" with 0 cost to themselves.

 

[Grimely]

I think an ai or player who does nothing in a war for years should get increased war exhaustion so they cant just "wait it out" with 0 cost to themselves.

They will eventually get Call for Peace.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

I'd really like some concrete examples / bug reports of AI misbehaving with forts instead of 'AI doesn't understand forts at all', because I'm really not seeing the latter in my own games.

From my experience it seems that the newest patches made the old frozen armies bug much more noticeable, the AI still tries to use exiled troops as if they were good and I´ve also seen AI troops exiled for centuries. Also it seems that the AI seldom creates a battle doom stack maybe because of pathing problems due to the forts or because they fall asleep. Sorry I don´t have a save but I have (lots of) videos if you´re interested.

 

[Raphael87]

I've seen Castille rejecting IW over and over, so yes, it is dumber. There should be no reason for that to happen, like ever.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

One specific oddity I can cite is in Portugal, where AI will often park huge stack on Alentejo but will not engage anything in Algarve because it is too worried about helping the sieging force in Lisboa (which of course, has zero forseeable danger).

Not necessarily "dumb", just way overtly cautious in that specific example. But it is hyper specific so I wouldn't suggest huge changes just to better accommodate that situation.

 

[Monkbel]

I've seen Castille rejecting IW over and over, so yes, it is dumber. There should be no reason for that to happen, like ever.

what's IW?

 

[Bobby555nc]

what's IW?

Iberian wedding, I think a union with Aragon.

 

[Bobby555nc]

They will eventually get Call for Peace.

Call for peace needs to show up earlier for people at war, but not doing anything in the war.

 

[Tweakee]

I've seen Castille rejecting IW over and over, so yes, it is dumber. There should be no reason for that to happen, like ever.

There is no AI for that event. It's a strict die roll. Totally random.

So no, nothing "dumber" there.

 

[Pitt The Elder]

I'd really like some concrete examples / bug reports of AI misbehaving with forts instead of 'AI doesn't understand forts at all', because I'm really not seeing the latter in my own games.

I would say one simple thing I would point out is that Austria doesn't seem to want to ally any of the electors at the start, which quite often winds up with them losing the crown very early. Presumably the Emperor should have a vested interest in buddying up with a number of the electors. Perhaps not exclusively, and perhaps not if they're the player.


I've also seen cases where the AI invites massive coalitions against itself. I don't have saves for you unfortunately, but here's a case in my current game where Burgundy won a war against Provence-Lorraine, then annexed Lorraine and one Provencal province, and promptly got coalitioned by half of Europe, and pounded into the dust. The AI really should have seen that that wasn't going to work out great.

e: Their AE here was in the 67 range if I remember correctly. Even assuming initial Burgundy was taking the full bugged +100% AE, rather than something smaller, this still would have wound up with the same result.




Similar thing happening with a few HRE minors too. They manage to win wars big, then throw it all away by trying to annex 3-4 provinces at once.

 

[Grimely]

I wouldn't be surprised if the AI is making its considerations based off of the intended AE value instead of the actual one, which is doubled.

 

[LikeNothing]

The counterpoint to this is that when the AI runs off to help in every battle, it becomes very easy to trick it to leave sieges, and results in it failing to capture wargoals and losing the overall war.

Precisely.

In my current Ming game I'm fighting a nomad confederation (Oirats + Mongols + Korchin + Jianzhou). The Great Wall of China seems very effective because the AI's can't stay in a siege for more than 30 days, given that my army has penetrated deep into their lands to pillage and to kill small stacks. Of course, Korea is helping me too.

It's like Ming has turned into England. I love it!

 

[chris_dftba]

I had a coalition the most of Europe coalitioned against, including the entire HRE (minus Austria and a few peace treaties), France, Great Britain, and Poland. And they didn't declare war. Granted I was a fairly powerful Spain, with a tight grip on the Mediterranean, the Caribbean, and a fairly large manpower reserve. And I did have Austria, Portugal, and Naples still willing to fight for me, but still, that was pretty much every major player in Europe pissed off at me, and no one thought it time to take me down a peg, not a single country in the coalition felt it was time to go to war. They waited long enough for me to get Poland out (and to immediately ally them) so, a coalition of Spain v Europe never happened. And they could of easily flattened me. But they never did.

 

[wergy]

They are that dumb in 1.12 already