Did the AI get way dumber in 1.13?
- Thread starter bradleygardner
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Well this is not really a bug but if you have equal troops as ai you can win wars with 0 casualties.When you seige land next to their main fort(capital) and move off the province the ai tries manually retaking it allowing you to seige their capital.The ai doesn't attack you since you have equal troops(especially if it's bad terrain) and then you can peace out after the seige is over since you have their main fort and capital.
Yes of course, you are right, but i mean IA sieging useless forts at that moment in the war.
For example, in a war Burgundy + Venice vs France, i have seen the entire Venetian army sieging Provence while burgundy was getting stomped.
In this case, provence is an useless fort at the start of the war, so it should not be in the priorities of the IA.
I like that you respond to an "AI is too dead set on sieges" post and then an "AI doesn't stick it its sieges" post back to back.
Is there a way to perhaps, at appropriate or seemingly appropriate times, have the AI detach a minimal siege force and then move the rest off? Bug or intended, they definitely take a TON of damage from attrition when over-sieging, and if they simply put the troops in a neighboring province that would make reinforcing reasonably simple (especially for a computer's reaction times) and possibly help them out a good deal.
Fort thing aside, because I don't think I see the relative stupidity others do (they just make a few sidesteps to get places) and they seem the same as always... the DOW thing is really bad. I think it's at least as bad, if not the worst, it's ever been. Could you possible add AT LEAST a check before the AI declares war that determines if they can potentially reach their wargoal without the other side having to make peace first? Augsburg conquest of Tirol doesn't work when Tirol and everything else nearby is occupied by France. The only way for Augsburg's AI to make any gains would be for Austria to end their other war... which means that Austria is now unsieged and can possibly wipe the floor with them. This is one I see all the time; I'll have French provinces sieged down, and then wimps will declare on the broken French nation, but they can't get any real warscore because France has no armies and I own all the land. As soon as I finally make peace, these wimps are as good as dead.
On a similar note to being able to occupy the wargoal, reaching it doesn't seem too great. It's rare, but I too have seen the Nation X declares on Y and then stays home phenomenon. I don't know if they're having access blocked they counted on or maybe their navy failed and I missed it, not sure, but it seems to happen rarely but enough to notice. Papal conquest of Provence is my favorite; it usually results in the Papacy losing Avignon.
Is there a way to perhaps, at appropriate or seemingly appropriate times, have the AI detach a minimal siege force and then move the rest off? Bug or intended, they definitely take a TON of damage from attrition when over-sieging, and if they simply put the troops in a neighboring province that would make reinforcing reasonably simple (especially for a computer's reaction times) and possibly help them out a good deal.
Fort thing aside, because I don't think I see the relative stupidity others do (they just make a few sidesteps to get places) and they seem the same as always... the DOW thing is really bad. I think it's at least as bad, if not the worst, it's ever been. Could you possible add AT LEAST a check before the AI declares war that determines if they can potentially reach their wargoal without the other side having to make peace first? Augsburg conquest of Tirol doesn't work when Tirol and everything else nearby is occupied by France. The only way for Augsburg's AI to make any gains would be for Austria to end their other war... which means that Austria is now unsieged and can possibly wipe the floor with them. This is one I see all the time; I'll have French provinces sieged down, and then wimps will declare on the broken French nation, but they can't get any real warscore because France has no armies and I own all the land. As soon as I finally make peace, these wimps are as good as dead.
On a similar note to being able to occupy the wargoal, reaching it doesn't seem too great. It's rare, but I too have seen the Nation X declares on Y and then stays home phenomenon. I don't know if they're having access blocked they counted on or maybe their navy failed and I missed it, not sure, but it seems to happen rarely but enough to notice. Papal conquest of Provence is my favorite; it usually results in the Papacy losing Avignon.
- 1
AI not building new forts after you take their forts is an issue... maybe they should get a free fort or an event that pops up if they have like 8 provinces and someone just took their last non-capital fort that gives them a discount on building a new fort.
Restricting unit movement by introducing ZOCs has also made the AI's tendency to freeze if it decides to do something and then can't/changes its mind a little worse, I think.
Restricting unit movement by introducing ZOCs has also made the AI's tendency to freeze if it decides to do something and then can't/changes its mind a little worse, I think.
Really? Movement around forts is all kinds of broken, not just for the AI, but for the player as well. As soon as there are multiple forts adjacent to each other and/or adjacent to country borders, the zones of control go crazy. Here's what happened when I tried to move one province over to Avignon, with Forts in Avignon and Provence. This is just one example of many.
That has nothing to do with the AI (and is not at all the result of one click on Avignon, but very obviously multiple clicks).
- 2
Yes, it was one single click on Avignon. And as I said, movement around forts is not just a problem for the AI, but for the player as well.
I'm experiencing multiple times where AI keeps trying to occupy a fort influence province after It moves away. Becuse of that I've lost some of my wars asswell.
Unless the pathfinding is fundamentally broken, that is not possible as it would not continue past the province you clicked on. I will set up a test case just to be sure but I find the pathfinding being fundamentally broken to that degree without anyone else catching it to be very unlikely.
EDIT: Set up an identical scenario and clicking on Avignon goes straight to Avignon, while clicking on Provence and THEN shift-clicking Avignon gives the precise path you have. If you provide a save, I'll test with it too but I think you just misclicked.
- 6
- 1
One thing I have noticed is that the AI now tend to form REALLY big balls of death, and make them all sit on one province, suffering huge attrition.
If the province behind a fort is not enemy territory, it happens rather often that you can move through the fort. I can promise you that it was a single click on Avignon, if that promise means anything.
Here's another example. The province behind Huanan, i.e. Yangzhou is not enemy territory, so I can move through the fort.
- 1
As I said, I just set up an identical scenario to yours and the only way to get your crazy path was to click Provence and then shift-click Avignon, so unless you can provide a repro save I'm going to have to assume you misclicked. The second screenshot you posted is entirely different.
- 2
I'm 100% sure I didn't misclick or shift-click. Why would I shift-click to move a single province over?
How is the other screenshot different? I'm also moving through a fort, aren't I? Is moving through forts into non-enemy territory WAD then?
What I always do in wars to stopgap AI idiocy is put one merc infantry on all the major occupations we need during the present stage. So when they move all 50 of their siege stack to go fight some farmland defensive battle we'll lose, the siege isn't reset entirely. I then move my siege stacks where it's prudent while I wait for my allies to get their shit together. I leave those 1 man infantry detachments there, and usually just let them die to the enemy. Often the enemy doesn't consider them a threat because 1 unit can't siege a fort, and they stay long enough for the AI to come help me siege them. Yay, AI stupidity doesn't cause me huge war issues.
I just realized someone posted this. Nice. Great minds think alike.
I just realized someone posted this. Nice. Great minds think alike.
man retry the provence simulation because this is the first thought i've had too when i saw it, it's impossible that the system obliges you to do avignon languedoc provence languedoc and then avignon again, if you can begin the path from avignon you should be able to stop there too.
I have recently seen some strange behavior with adjacent forts where you can advance to one but not the other. It's not clear to me what exactly is triggering it, but I witnessed it with Edirne/Constantinople (both with active forts and no others in the region). Sometimes my army would advance to Constantinople, no problem. Other times, it was blocked by Edirne. I cannot offer an exact reproduction case, because every time I thought I had it figured out, it let me back into Constantinople. I suspect it had something to do with sieges of nearby provinces (and when they fell), but I cannot be sure. =\
I think frozen AI armies are back... My CNs armies were just frozen and he refused to kill rebels 2 provinces next to it with more than enough men/morale to take down. It just sit there. When I reloaded, he killed the rebels immediately.
- 3
Drop siege spam. There were about 2-3x as many siege restarts before I decided to capture a screenshot.
It would start to move out of the province and then stop (thereby re-sieging). My troops weren't even near (I pulled them back to recover troop strength). The AI couldn't decide between de-sieging two non-fort provinces or a forted province.
It would start to move out of the province and then stop (thereby re-sieging). My troops weren't even near (I pulled them back to recover troop strength). The AI couldn't decide between de-sieging two non-fort provinces or a forted province.
- 2
I can see how it seems I might have shift-clicked, but I know I didn't (I've got a certain problem with my left hand, which means I can't rest it on the keyboard while playing, and it's only very rare cases that I move the hand to the keyboard). But Wiz already said he tested it and it wasn't reproducable, so there's not really a point to arguing.
I've had one case of frozen armies yesterday as well. Brandenburg just didn't move its army after declaring an offensive war. Reloading fixed it though.